[Advaita-l] [advaitin] apauruSheyatva of the Veda

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste

Unless the question of jaDakAraNatvaM or cetanakAraNatvam of jagat is
discussed, it's meaningless/premature to debate apauruSheyatva of vedas.

Regarding validity of apauruSheyatva in  modern frames of reference - the
first step is therefore to ask anyone who denies even the possibility of
apauruSheyatva, whether they assert jaDakAraNatvaM of jagat or are
comfortable with the idea of cetanakAraNatvam of jagat. That is a more
immediate question than apauruSheyatva of veda. Debating apauruSheyatva
with a "scientific" person is similar to debating the importance of nitya
karmas with an nAstika.

If someone insists on jaDakAraNatvaM then that needs to be debated first
and sorted out before any meaningful apauruSheyatva discussion can be had.

 jagat jaDakAraNatvaM can be more easily shown to be a faulty assertion
based on incomplete and incoherent axioms.

At the very least, cetanakAraNatvam can be shown to be a non-falsifiable
assertion.

OTOH, if cetanakAraNatvam (with abhinna-nimittopAdAna kAraNam) is let us
say accepted, then the knowledge, based on which this
intelligently-put-together-jagat-sRShTi occurs, has to be necessarily
accepted as having existed before sRShTi. That knowledge has to be
encapsulated in some or the other language which has to exist in a
seed-form. The idea of apauruSheyatva of knowledge required for
jagat-sRShTi follows as a necessary conclusion.

Note that this however does not imply that first there was knowledge of how
to create in Ishvara and then he "composed" the words - that is not the
case. Instead,  the words and knowledge called vedas are co-eval with
Ishvara - Vedas and Ishvara are inseparable - they are the aspect of
Ishvara's nimittakAraNa Shakti. All this is the thrust of the BSB on
shAstra-yonitvAt and devatAdhikaraNam bhAShyas. The idea of vedas as
representative of Ishvara as the intelligent cause (nimitta kAraNa aspect)
of jagat was articulated by manu smRti and bhAmatI-kAra etc., too.

There were earlier discussions on this.

Om
Raghav


On Sat, 2 Mar, 2024, 4:26 pm Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> praNAms Sri Chitta prabhuji
> Hare Krishna
>
> I am not sure why you think there was a debate between me and Sri Omkar
> Deshpande on this topic in this group. You have been persistently spreading
> this misleading account of what happened on this group in the past too and
> I had pointed out to you that you that no such debate had taken place and
> you should desist from making such claims.
>
>
> Ø     My sincere apologies -/\- prabhuji.  As you know, during that priod,
> there were ocean of mails / exchanges between you and Jay, between you and
> Omkar, between you and Krishna kadiri and some other active members as
> well.  I might have mistaken your indulgence in the debate with regard to
> apaurusheya status of the particular text. As suggested and clarified by
> you, henceforth, I refrain myself from dragging your name in this.  But if
> I am not mistaken, Sri Omkar Deshpande argued this issue with (??) very
> well and I have not seen any meaningful and logical countering except some
> traditionally inclined minds’ sentimental outbursts.  And if I remember
> correctly during that time I had also told Sri Omkar Deshpande directly
> that I would like to see he should lose this debate as my heart goes with
> tradition (favouring apaurusheyatva) but intellectually I cannot push aside
> his points ( its faultlessness just because it is not man-made, veda-s are
> apaurusheya because veda says that etc. highlighting the anyOnyaashraya
> dosha etc.).  Anyway, I am happy that my repeated mistaken propaganda about
> your goodself is forced you to re-appear on the stage😊 Please be there for
> some more time prabhuji.
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar
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