[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** RE: Re: [advaitin] apauruSheyatva of the Veda

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Bhaskar ji,

As you said, Shankaracharya says that the meaning of the terms itihAsa,
purANa, vidyA, upaniShad, Sloka, sUtra, vyAkhyA, anuvyAkhyA all refer to
various parts of the Veda only.

We don't have to consider ourselves with what non advaitins are saying when
the bhAShyakAra is so clearly saying that the other terms refer to various
parts of the Veda only - you have argued for the sanctity of only the
bhAShya when reviewing and dismissing the works of other AchAryas within
advaita sampradAya, why should the same not be extended here also, when
dismissing what non advaitins have to say?

Shankaracharya has said -

किं तन्निश्वसितमिव ततो जातमित्युच्यते — यदृग्वेदो यजुर्वेदः
सामवेदोऽथर्वाङ्गिरसः - चतुर्विधं मन्त्रजातम् , इतिहास इति, उर्वशीपुरूरवसोः
संवादादिः — ‘उर्वशी हाप्सराः’ (शत. ब्रा. ११ । ५ । १ । १) इत्यादि
ब्राह्मणमेव, पुराणम् — ‘असद्वा इदमग्र आसीत्’ (तै. उ. २ । ७ । १) इत्यादि,
विद्या देवजनविद्या — वेदः सोऽयम् — इत्याद्या, उपनिषदः ‘प्रियमित्येतदुपासीत’
(बृ. उ. ४ । १ । ३) इत्याद्याः, श्लोकाः ब्राह्मणप्रभवा मन्त्राः ‘तदेते
श्लोकाः’ (बृ. उ. ४ । ४ । ८) इत्यादयः, सूत्राणि वस्तुसङ्ग्रहवाक्यानि वेदे
यथा — ‘आत्मेत्येवोपासीत’ (बृ. उ. १ । ४ । ७) इत्यादीनि, अनुव्याख्यानानि
मन्त्रविवरणानि, व्याख्यानान्यर्थवादाः, अथवा
वस्तुसङ्ग्रहवाक्यविवरणान्यनुव्याख्यानानि — यथा चतुर्थाध्याये
‘आत्मेत्येवोपासीत’ (बृ. उ. १ । ४ । ७) इत्यस्य यथा वा
‘अन्योऽसावन्योऽहमस्मीति न स वेद यथा पशुरेवं’ (बृ. उ. १ । ४ । १०) इत्यस्य
अयमेवाध्यायशेषः, मन्त्रविवरणानि व्याख्यानानि — एवमष्टविधं ब्राह्मणम् ।

*एवं मन्त्रब्राह्मणयोरेव ग्रहणम् ; नियतरचनावतो विद्यमानस्यैव
वेदस्याभिव्यक्तिः पुरुषनिश्वासवत् , न च पुरुषबुद्धिप्रयत्नपूर्वकः ; अतः
प्रमाणं निरपेक्ष एव स्वार्थे ; तस्मात् यत् तेनोक्तं तत्तथैव प्रतिपत्तव्यम्
,* आत्मनः श्रेय इच्छद्भिः, ज्ञानं वा कर्म वेति ।

Swami Madhavananda's translation -

What are those things that are spoken of as issuing from It as Its breath?
The Rg- Veda, Yajur-Veda, Sama-Veda, Atharvāngirasa, i.e. the four kinds of
Mantras.

1) History (itihAsa), such as the dialogue between Urvasi and Purūravas
'The nymph Urvasi,' and so on (§. XI. iv. 4. 1); it is this Brāhmaṇa that
is meant.

2) Mythology (purANa), such as, 'This universe was in the beginning
unmanifest,' etc. (Tai. II. 7).

3) Arts (vidyA), which treat of music, dancing, etc.- 'This is also Veda,'
etc. (S. XIII. iv. 3. 10-14).

4) Upanisads (upaniShad), such as, 'It should be meditated upon as. dear,'
etc. (IV. 1. 3).

5) Verses (Sloka), the Mantras occurring in the Brahmaņas, such as,
'Regarding this there are the following verses' (IV. iii. II; IV. iv. 8).

6) Aphorisms (sUtra), those passages of the Vedas which present the truth
in a nutshell, for example,. 'The Self alone is to be meditated upon' (I.
iv. 7).

7) Elucidations-of the Mantras. (anuvyAkhyA)

8) Explanations (vyAkhyA), eulogistic passages.

Or 'elucidations' (anuvyAkhyA) may be of the 'aphorisms' above. As the
passage, 'The Self alone is to be meditated upon,' or the passage, 'He (who
worships another god thinking), "He is one, and I am another," does not
know. He is like an animal (to the gods)' (I. iv. 10), has this concluding
portion of the present chapter as its elucidation.

And 'explanations' (vyAkhyA) may be of the Mantras. Thus these are the
eight divisions of the Brāhmaṇas.

*So only the Mantras and Brāhmaṇas are meant.(1) It is the eternally
composed and already existent Vedas that are manifested like a man's
breath--without any thought or effort on his part. Hence they are an
authority as regards their meaning, independently of any other means of
knowledge. *Therefore those who aspire after well-being must accept the
verdict of the Vedas on knowledge or on rites, as it is.

(1) And not the popular meanings of those eight terms.


Regards,
Venkatraghavan




On Mon, 4 Mar 2024, 18:44 Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> In fact Vedas were breath of the Brahman
>
> praNAms
> Hare Krishna
>
> ItihAsa, purANa, shloka, vyAkhyAna, anuvyAkhyAna also included along with
> Rig, Yajur, sAma and atharvAgirasa as paramAtma's exhalation in br. Shruti
> (2-4-10), though bhAshyakAra clarifies this (itihAsa, purANa etc.) is
> within shruti, commentaries vary within theistic darshana.  Since brahman
> is the source of all, he is not only the source of mere veda-s but for the
> whole world so  itihAsa, purAna, vyAkhyAna, anuvyAkhyAna also he is the
> only source and there is no problem in accepting this. So goes some other
> observations.  And  Some other commentaries treating itihAsa pUrAna in its
> popular meaning only i..e paurusheya pUrAna (vyAsa virachita) etc. since
> vyAsa is vishNu avatAra etc.  Another declaration that he is vedAnta krut
> (15-15) from geeta also  subject to different interpretation among
> different theistic schools i.e. Astika sampradaya to be precise.  So going
> by the original source of these texts we cannot establish anything
> authoritatively and again we have to depend on paurus
>  heya commentaries (which is in all probability limited to respective
> commentator's capability of understanding of these texts and its
> articulation) on it to prove one or the other.
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>