[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Kilogram concluded

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

Forgot to add. There can be NO ignorance when this *Entity* is not
obstructed because it is Self Luminous , and knowledge automatically
originates.

Regards

On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 8:56 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste.
>
> Why is Ignorance as a positive entity posited in the Shrutis?
>
> In all illustrations being presented here, like cave etc, there is already
> darkness and what is needed is light for knowledge. Here we are faced with
> an entirely different situation. What is *Existing* is unalloyed Knowledge,
> meaning that the infrastructure is readily available for anything capable
> of gaining knowledge to gain it with the help of this Source.  However it
> is noticed in experience that correct knowledge concerning this  *Entity*
> itself is not available. There is universally ignorance (partial knowledge)
> about this *Entity*. This is possible ONLY if there is an obstruction for
> its correct knowledge to take place. Hence an *obstruction* is stated in
> the Shrutis, and this is termed Ignorance. This is a fundamental Ignorance
> because unless this is overcome correct knowledge of the *Entity* cannot
> take place.
>
> It is only with the help of this *Entity*, whatever knowledge anyone has
> is enabled. In the absence of this, no knowledge of anything is possible.
> It is as if everything is covered. Which is what happens in our experience
> when darkness obtains. Hence this fundamental obstruction is also termed
> *darkness*. And this ^Darkness* is termed a *positive* entity.
>
> The Shrutis also posit that correct knowledge of this *Entity* is highly
> beneficial and should be the Goal of life.
>
> Regards
>
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 7:36 PM <dwaite at advaita.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Dear Ram-ji,
>>
>>
>>
>> I, too, was lamenting the fact that there were so few appropriate changes
>> to the subject headings. I seem to remember making a similar complaint many
>> years ago. Current discussions have little to do with my original remarks.
>> (Before anyone makes the comment, I do accept that it is usually desirable
>> to keep the same heading, as I am doing now, so that we can recognize the
>> trail of the discussion but, when the discussion branches or changes into
>> some new aspect, I think the heading should change also.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Your reference to Plato’s ‘Cave’ metaphor seems very appropriate. As I
>> recall this, the people in the cave continue in their depleted environment
>> until someone (the philosopher-teacher) comes down from the outside and
>> explains their situation to them. I.e. not so much ‘removing’ anything from
>> their understanding but telling them what things are really like and giving
>> them a more rational explanation for the figures that they see. The
>> darkness is a metaphor for their lack of the light of knowledge from
>> outside the cave and not a ‘positive’ thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, when you say “Those inside the cave only experience the ton of
>> darkness due to their ignorance”, I would rather say that they experience
>> the darkness because there is no light coming in from outside. ‘Ignorance’
>> is just a word we use for ‘lack of knowledge’ and not an ontological
>> reality.
>>
>>
>>
>> And I guess that comment probably brings the discussion back to its
>> starting point…
>>
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com> *On Behalf
>> Of *Ram Chandran
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 5, 2024 1:00 PM
>> *To:* advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [advaitin] Kilogram concluded
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Namaskar:
>>
>> Our Senior Moderator and philosopher Dennisji posted a message with the
>> title, "A kilogram of darkness!" Probably a more appropriate title could be
>> "A Ton of Darkness" which will likely be more appealing!  It is interesting
>> to note that the role of darkness and how takes the seekers away from the
>> Reality has been discussed in greater length by both the western and
>> eastern philosophers. For example in the topic pertains to "Plato's
>> Allegory of the Cave," Plato uses the cave as a symbolic representation of
>> how the experience of the seekers who live in this world is contrasted with
>> the Reality! The cave is full of darkness and the light is experienced by
>> those who are outside the cave.  Those inside the cave only experience the
>> ton of darkenss due to their ignorance!  Plato's Allegory of the Cave is a
>> social metaphor for how intelligence (especially intelligence that refutes
>> accepted/common knowledge) can expel people from society! Those who live in
>> inside the dark cave can only see shadows and reflections of reality if and
>> when they light some fire! For those in the cave the shadows that they see
>> on the walls of the cave is the Truth and Reality. If one escapes from the
>> cave and experiences the light outside then the escaped person only knows
>> the difference between light and darkness!!
>>
>> Ignorance is the cause for not recognizing the Reality has been
>> understood by all but Sankara's Advaita philosophy has spelled out in very
>> clear terms.  Implicitly, we all live inside the Plato's cave as prisoners
>> (seekers) relying only on the experiences from our senses and experience
>> only a little of the Nature of Reality. Advaita recognize the fact that to
>> realize the Nature of Reality one has to go beyond the senses!
>> Ram Chandran
>>
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>>
>