[Advaita-l] Can the self be called anirvachaniya?

[V Subrahmanian]

You are welcome. Good to know that the inputs were helpful.

warm regards
subbu

On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 10:03 PM khaaksaar <musafir57 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sriman Subrahmanian prabhuji, Pranaams!
>
> Thanks for your lucid explanation.I found both your explanation and what
> is written in the *adbhutam* blog to be supremely helpful.
>
> Gratefully and in appreciation,
> 🙏
>
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 3:36 AM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> In the Bhagavadgita 13.12 the Lord says:
>>
>>
>> ज्ञेयं यत्तत् प्रवक्ष्यामि यज्ज्ञात्वाऽमृतमश्नुते ।
>>
>> *अनादिमत्परं ब्रह्म न सत्तन्नासदुच्यते ॥*
>>
>>
>> [That which has to be known I shall describe; knowing which one attains
>> the
>> Immortal. Beginningless is the Supreme Brahman. * It is not said to be
>> ‘sat
>> or ‘asat’.]*
>>
>> Shankaracharya, in the course of the commentary, raises a question:
>>
>> ननु महता परिकरबन्धेन कंठरवेणोद्घुष्य ’ ज्ञेयं प्रवक्ष्यामि’ इति,
>> अननुरूपमुक्तं ’न सत्तन्नासदुच्यते’ इति । न, अनुरूपमेवोक्तम् । कथं ?
>> *सर्वासु
>> ह्युपनिषत्सु ज्ञेयं ब्रह्म ’नेति नेति’ , ’अस्थूलमनणु’,
>> इत्यादिविशेषप्रतिषेधेनैव निर्दिश्यते, न ’इदं तत्’ इति, वाचोऽगोचरत्वात् ।*
>>
>> Objection: After proclaiming very loudly that He is going to speak of the
>> Knowable, it does not become the Lord to describe It as neither ‘sat’ nor
>> ‘asat’.
>>
>> Reply: No; it is quite the right thing that has been said by the Lord.
>> How?
>> It is thus: Being inaccessible to speech, Brahman, the Knowable, is
>> defined
>> in all Upanishads only by a denial of all specialities, such as ‘Not thus’
>> (Br.Up.2.3.6) and ‘not gross, not subtle’ (Br.Up.3.8.8) and NOT in the
>> terms ‘It is this’.
>>
>> ननु न तदस्ति यद्वस्तु अस्तिशब्देन नोच्यते । अथास्तिश्ब्देन नोच्यते, नास्ति
>> तज्ज्ञेयम् । विप्रतिषिद्धं च ’ज्ञेयं तत्’ ’अस्तिशब्देन नोच्यते’ इति च । न
>> तावन्नास्ति, नास्तिवुद्ध्यविषयत्वात् ।
>>
>> Objection: That thing (alone) exists which can be spoken of as existing.
>> If
>> the Knowable cannot be spoken of as existing, then It cannot exist. And it
>> is a contradiction in terms to say that Brahman is knowable and that It
>> cannot be spoken of as existing.
>>
>>
>> One can read the rest of the bhashya, etc. here:
>> https://adbhutam.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/vedapraamaanya/
>>
>> regards
>>
>> subbu
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 2:37 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hari Om Chandramouli ji.
>> >
>> > In advaita SiddhAnta, anirvachanIya is not used in the sense of
>> inacapable
>> > > of being defined in words. It is to be understood as inacapable of
>> being
>> > > categorized as * सत् (sat)* or *other than सत् (sat)*. The Bhashya, in
>> > > three places, states as below
>> > >
>> >
>> > Exceptional!!
>> >
>> > Advaita Siddhi also says exactly what you said - नहि
>> > निरुक्तिविरहमात्रेणानिर्वाच्यत्वं ब्रूमः, किंतु सत्त्वादिना
>> निरुक्तिविरहेण
>> > ।
>> >
>> > Mere inability to define/state is not meant by anirvachanIyatva, but the
>> > inability to state as sat or asat is called anirvachanIyatva.
>> >
>> > Since Brahman can be stated in words as sat, it is not anirvachanIya.
>> > Similarly, tuchchha is not anirvachanIya either. mAyA/avidyA however
>> cannot
>> > be stated as either sat or asat on account of bAdhaka-sattva, it is
>> held to
>> > be anirvachanIya.
>> >
>> > Regards.
>> > Sudhanshu Shekhar.
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