[Advaita-l] Fwd: [advaitin] what is abhava?

[Michael Chandra Cohen]

Namaste Raghav,
Great example but isn't the 'darkness' you experience with your eyes closed
just another name for 'absence of light'? Rather, it's better to understand
"it" as sakshi observing the absence of objects and light - all just names
for the 'it' you are calling darkness.
Regards, michael

On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 5:36 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <raghavkumar00 at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 25 Sept, 2024, 1:26 pm
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] what is abhava?
> To: Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at hitachienergy.com>
>
>
> Namaste Bhaskar prabhu ji
> You have articulated in detail the views of SSS ji based on a prima facie
> view of human experience and thank you for the same. But the mainstream
> Advaita tradition has thought through this issue much more deeply and
> thoroughly than these prima facie views. (E.g., the prima facie (seemingly
> anubhava sammata) view is that "what is seen is real". But as we know from
> prasiddha hetu, the opposite is true.)
>
> I would only suggest you examine the following -
> When I close my eyes, I do directly experience something.  i don't need to
> "think about" light to appreciate that darkness. This is anubhava sammata -
> that I don't need to think about light to experience darkness. Darkness
> experience is a "one-step" experience like experiencing the ground in front
> of me.
>
>  But any absence (like pot-absence on the ground) requires some mental
> processing and recollecting a pot seen earlier etc., - it is paroxa
> jnAnam, a "two-step" process.
>
> Om
> Raghav
>
>
>
> On Wed, 25 Sept, 2024, 12:02 pm Bhaskar YR, <bhaskar.yr at hitachienergy.com>
> wrote:
>
> > praNAms Sri rAghava prabhuji
> > Hare Krishna
> >
> > Perhaps what the word ekarUpa used by Bhaskar ji means is - If there is
> > only one category of abhAva (I e., atyanta abhAva) accepted, one could
> say
> > it is just "ekarUpa" in the language employed by SSS adherents. But then
> > what of prAgabhAva which is accepted by SSS ji?
> >
> > >  As you know I am not a logician (infact I myself proud to say despite
> > my grand ignorance about nyAya shAstra) would like to understand these
> > things in the light of day to day experience.  So whether Sri SSS agreed
> > for prAgabhAva type of abhAva or something else is hardly a matter of
> > concern.  Infact Sri SSS, in sugama,  contextually granting the status of
> > prAgabhAva to the abhAva during the flow of discussion after hearing the
> > various types of abhAva from the logician's desk.  We cannot say it is
> his
> > final stand and final definition of anubhava sammata jnAnAbhAva.  The
> > anubhava sammata jnAnAbhAva is very simple it is absence of knowledge.
> > This 'I don’t know' something which is quite common in all there is no
> need
> > for finding the reason for it and asking the cause for it is also
> > illegitimate.  Due to the absence of knowledge that we are brahman
> > (akartru-abhOktru) we have been constantly identifying ourselves in
> > jaagrat, Svapna, sushupti, seeing and experiencing different things in
> > jAgrat and svapna with the help of antaHkaraNa, doing puNya, pApa,
> liking,
> > disliking, taking birth meeting death etc. etc.  And when we realize that
> > we are free from these upAdhi-s and we are secondless chaitanyam
> > (parishuddha brahma/Atma) the knowledge dawns that we are bereft of these
> > things.  But till the dawn of this knowledge we donot know this.  This
> > ignorance of us about ourselves is called avidyA.  In vedAnta also this
> > avidyA is called ajnAna, agrahaNa etc.  I don’t know where in the PTB we
> > can have the definition of difference between avidyA as material cause
> and
> > jnAnAbhAva as its product!!  This absence of knowledge about our svarUpa
> is
> > what is called jnAnAbhAva.  And the adhyAsa is because of this absent of
> > knowledge.  This ignorance (jnAnAbhAva) is not pravartaka as it is
> ekarUpa
> > the direct pravartaka (or motivator) is adhyAsa and yeshaNa, kAma etc.
> > though it can be said ignorance is the indirect cause for the pravartaka
> > vrutti.  Sri SSS emphasizes that adhyAsa is the direct cause on account
> of
> > which one thinks that he is dehavAn (dehAtma buddhi), sees the
> distinction
> > between male-female, he is thin, fat, she is my wife, I am happy, I am
> sad
> > etc. etc. and as a result accruing pApa and pUnya and succumbing to birth
> > and death cycle.  So avidyA ( as jnAnAbhAva) is not directly responsible
> > for this differentiation as it is ekarUpa / uniform in all of us.  It is
> > only when we are suffering in adhyAsa leading us to avidyA kAma karma.
> In
> > the sUtra bhAshya it is specifically said that :  na cha avidyA kevala
> > vaishamyasya kAraNaM ekarUpatvAt...rAgAdikleshavAsanAkshipta karmApeksha
> tu
> > avidyA vaishamyakAree syAt.  And we say this avidyA is ekarUpa so it
> cannot
> > be directly responsible for the differences. How this jnAnAbhAva is
> ekarUpa
> > / uniform ??  the answer is simple and anubhava sammata that it is just
> the
> > absence of knowledge which cannot be different in different jeeva-s hence
> > adhyAsa.  The reason for the wrong knowledge (adhyAsa) is the absence of
> > right knowledge (thought) in mind i.e. I am brahman.  The logicians may
> > hammer this very simple lokAnubhava sammata definition of avidyA as
> > jnAnAbhAva and adhyAsa as wrong knowledge from different angles and
> > logics.  But in our books it remains as simple as this.  And this simple
> > definition about our problem is good enough for us to strive hard for the
> > right knowledge.
> >
> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > bhaskar
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>