[Advaita-l] A dialogue between Jnana and Bhakti

[Krishna Kashyap]

good, answer. I like the IAS officer, Prisoner analogy

*Best Regards,*

*Krishna Kashyap*




On Sat, Apr 5, 2025 at 10:20 AM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 4, 2025 at 10:50 PM Harsh Raval <hardyraval48 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Subrahmanian jii,
> >
> > Shri Radhe🙏,
> >
> > My heart is so full after reading this conversation between two aspirants
> > of bhakti and gyaan.
> >
> > But sometimes on reading  Advaita shastras the prema for ishwara dimishes
> > and mind gets indulged in confusion.
> >
> > For eg. PANCHDASI-6.236. Maya is said to be the desire-fulfilling cow.
> > Jiva and Ishvara are its two calves. Drink of its milk of duality as much
> > as you like, but the truth is non-duality.
> >
> > Here ishwara is considered to be under maya.
> >
> >  Panchdasi 1.16 says- Brahman, reflected in Maya, is known as the
> > omniscient Isvara, who controls Maya.
> >
> > And here maya is considered to be under ishwara.
> >
> > How to resolve such conflicts?
> >
>
>
> Dear Harsh ji,
>
> Supposing there is a Commissioner of Prisons, an IAS officer.  For
> logistical reasons his office is located inside a sprawling Central Prison
> premises.  When he is in his office, a relative calls up his house and
> enquires where this officer is.  His wife answers: He is in the prison.
>
> Supposing there is a criminal in the same prison serving a five-year term.
> HIs relative, not in contact with this criminal/prisoner's family for a
> long time, calls up his house and asks where this man is.  His wife
> answers:  He is in the prison.
>
> Now, both the answers are facts.  Yet they have a world of difference
> between them.  Similar is the case with Ishwara and the bound jivas
> coexisting in the realm of Maya.
> *Thus, there is no question of Ishwara being under the illusion of duality
> according to Advaita.*
>
> warm regards
> subbu
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Harsh Raval
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > From: V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2025, 22:07
> > Subject: [Advaita-l] A dialogue between Jnana and Bhakti
> > To: Advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com>, A discussion group for Advaita
> > Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Cc: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> >
> >
> > *Setting: A serene ashram garden where two seekers meet at sunset. Maya,
> a
> > devotee following the bhakti path, sits in meditation near a small
> temple.
> > Arun, a scholar of Vedanta focused on jnana, approaches and sits nearby.*
> >
> > **Arun**: *observing Maya as she completes her devotional prayers* Your
> > devotion has such genuine feeling. The way you relate to the divine...
> it's
> > as though you're speaking to someone right here.
> >
> > **Maya**: *smiling warmly* Because I am. The Divine is as present to me
> as
> > you are, perhaps more so. *looking curiously* But I've seen you here
> > before, always with your texts, contemplating deeply. Your path seems
> > different from mine.
> >
> > **Arun**: Yes, I follow jnana marga—the path of knowledge. I seek
> > understanding through inquiry and discrimination, peeling away layers of
> > illusion to realize what is eternally true.
> >
> > **Maya**: And I follow my heart through bhakti. I find the Divine through
> > love and surrender. *pauses* Some say our paths are contradictory.
> >
> > **Arun**: *thoughtfully* Many do see it that way. The jnani seeks to
> > transcend all forms to realize formless Brahman, while the bhakta
> embraces
> > divine form and relationship. But I've come to wonder if they're truly
> > separate paths.
> >
> > **Maya**: I wonder the same. When I'm deepest in my devotion, something
> > strange happens. The "I" that loves and the Divine that is loved... the
> > boundary between them starts to dissolve.
> >
> > **Arun**: *eyes widening with interest* That's fascinating. In my deepest
> > inquiries, when I follow the thread of "Who am I?" to its source, I don't
> > arrive at cold, abstract knowledge. There's a... fullness there. A
> > completeness that feels like love.
> >
> > **Maya**: Perhaps because love and knowing aren't truly separate? *picks
> a
> > flower* When I truly love this flower, I'm paying complete attention to
> it.
> > I'm knowing it, not intellectually, but with my whole being.
> >
> > **Arun**: And when I truly know something—not just conceptually but
> > directly—there's a natural appreciation, even reverence, that arises. The
> > boundaries between knower and known thin out.
> >
> > **Maya**: *nodding eagerly* Yes! When I pray to Krishna, sometimes I feel
> > I'm looking through His eyes back at myself. The devotee and the object
> of
> > devotion start to feel like two waves in the same ocean.
> >
> > **Arun**: That's a beautiful way to express it. The Upanishads say "Tat
> > Tvam Asi"—That Thou Art. The self and Brahman are one. But this isn't
> just
> > an intellectual proposition; it's something to be realized.
> >
> > **Maya**: *contemplative* In my tradition, there's a concept called
> > prema—divine love in its purest form. When prema fully blossoms, they say
> > the devotee and Krishna experience themselves in and as each other. Isn't
> > that also non-duality?
> >
> > **Arun**: It sounds very much like it. Perhaps true bhakti naturally
> leads
> > to jnana, and true jnana blossoms into bhakti.
> >
> > **Maya**: *looking at the setting sun* Think of the sun and its rays. The
> > sun might represent Brahman or Krishna—the source—and the rays are the
> ways
> > we approach it. Whether we study the nature of light or bask in its
> warmth,
> > we're engaging with the same sun.
> >
> > **Arun**: That's an illuminating metaphor. *smiles* There's another way
> to
> > look at it. Jnana might be recognizing that you and the Divine are one
> > ocean. Bhakti is delighting in the dance of the waves.
> >
> > **Maya**: *laughs softly* I like that! The ocean doesn't negate the
> waves,
> > and the waves don't diminish the ocean. They're expressions of the same
> > reality.
> >
> > **Arun**: *nodding* And there's something else I've noticed. Jnana alone
> > can become dry and conceptual without the heart engagement of bhakti. The
> > knowledge might be there, but it doesn't transform you completely.
> >
> > **Maya**: Yes! And bhakti without some element of jnana can sometimes get
> > caught in superstition or attachment to particular forms rather than the
> > essence behind them.
> >
> > **Arun**: *thoughtfully* Perhaps they're like two wings of a bird. You
> need
> > both to truly soar.
> >
> > **Maya**: *picking up a small Krishna murti* When I look at this form of
> > Krishna, I'm not just seeing a deity separate from me. I'm recognizing
> > something of my own essential nature reflected back at me—consciousness,
> > bliss, love.
> >
> > **Arun**: And when I meditate on the mahavakyas, the great sayings like
> > "Aham Brahmasmi"—I am Brahman—it's not a cold intellectual exercise.
> > There's a profound sense of connection, an overwhelming... *searches for
> > words*
> >
> > **Maya**: Love?
> >
> > **Arun**: *smiles* Yes, love. Not separate from knowledge but its very
> > essence.
> >
> > **Maya**: *looks at the first stars appearing* The gopis in the
> Bhagavatam
> > reach Krishna through pure love, not philosophical knowledge. Yet they
> > experience the highest truth.
> >
> > **Arun**: And many jnanis speak of surrender—a quintessential bhakti
> > quality—as essential for final realization. Even Shankaracharya composed
> > beautiful devotional hymns.
> >
> > **Maya**: *nodding* And Ramana Maharshi, though teaching self-inquiry,
> > embodied tremendous devotion. Perhaps at their heights, jnana and bhakti
> > become indistinguishable.
> >
> > **Arun**: Like rivers with different sources meeting in the same ocean.
> >
> > **Maya**: *gesturing to the space between them* Maybe that's why we're
> > having this conversation. To remind each other of what our paths share.
> >
> > **Arun**: *smiling warmly* Truth expresses itself through both wisdom and
> > love. Whatever path we walk, the destination illuminates both the head
> and
> > heart.
> >
> > **Maya**: *places the Krishna murti between them* When I look deeply into
> > the eyes of the Beloved, I see Brahman looking back. When you realize
> your
> > true nature, do you not find love there?
> >
> > **Arun**: *with deep sincerity* Always. In that speechless recognition,
> > love and knowing are one movement of consciousness.
> >
> > *As night falls completely, they sit in comfortable silence, the
> boundaries
> > between their paths dissolving like stars reflecting in still
> > water—different lights revealing the same vast sky.*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>