[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Bhagavad Gita - As it actually is | Sanatana Dharma | Sri Shankara Bhagavatpada & Bhakti | Sringeri

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 10:38 AM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

//  Now taking all the above we have to conclude: Since Bhagavan himself
says that 'many bodies of mine have come and gone', the avatara sharirams
are not eternal //.

BGB 4-6 states as follows

//  *कथं **तर्हि **तव **नित्येश्वरस्य **धर्माधर्माभावेऽपि **जन्म
**इति, **उच्यते
//*

*// kathaM tarhi tava nityeshvarasya dharmAdharmAbhAve.api janma iti,
uchyate //*

*Translation  // 'In that case, how, in spite of the absence of
righteousness and unrighteousness, can there be any birth for You who are
the eternal God?' That is beng answered //.*



//तां प्रकृतिं स्वाम् अधिष्ठाय वशीकृत्य सम्भवामि देहवानिव भवामि जात इव
आत्ममायया आत्मनः मायया, न परमार्थतो लोकवत् //

// tAM prakRRitiM svAm adhiShThAya vashIkRRitya sambhavAmi dehavAniva
bhavAmi jAta iva AtmamAyayA AtmanaH mAyayA, na paramArthato lokavat //

Translation  // by subjugating that Prakrti of Mine, sambhavami, I take
birth, appear to become embodeid, as though born; atma-mayaya, by means of
My own Maya; but not in reality like an ordinary man// .

Regards

On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 11:00 AM Kalyan Chakravarthy <
kalyanchakravarthy2021 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I do not believe the pandit-jis are talking about nitya tattva-s and
> anitya sharira-s when they imply two Krishna-s.
>
> They initially ask a question on what is so special about the Bhagavad
> Gita and they contrast it with Anu Gita. Their understanding is that
> Bhagavad Gita is special because it is taught by Ishwara-Krishna and they
> seem to imply that Anu-Gita is taught by Avtaara-Krishna, who is somehow
> different from Ishwara-Krishna.
>
> They explicitly say that Arjuna's Hey Krishna, Hey Yadava, is somehow
> different from the teacher of the Bhagavad Gita, who showed His
> Vishwaroopa.
>
> The specific Gita verse that I quoted, completely negates their theory.
>
> Best Regards
>
> On Thursday, 17 April 2025 at 10:38:40 am UTC+5:30 v.subrahmanian wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 2:04 AM Kalyan Chakravarthy <
>> kalyanchakr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It appears to me that the 2 pandit-jis in the discussion seem to be
>>> making an artificial distinction between avataara-Krishna and
>>> Ishwara-Krishna, which again brings the theory of 2 Krishna-s.
>>>
>>> However, a look at Gita indicates otherwise. There is only one Krishna.
>>>
>>> स एवायं मया तेऽद्य योगः प्रोक्तः पुरातनः।
>>> भक्तोऽसि मे सखा चेति रहस्यं ह्येतदुत्तमम्।।4.3।।
>>>
>>> 4.3 That ancient Yoga itself, which is this, has been taught to you by
>>> Me today, considering that you are My devotee and friend, For, this (Yoga)
>>> is a profound secret.
>>>
>>> Here, Ishwara-Krishna is Acharya-Krishna (the one who is teaching
>>> Arjuna) is equated with Arjuna's friend, who is avataara-Krishna. This
>>> verse conclusively shows there is only one Krishna.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Namaste
>>
>> We have to consider these words of Bhagavan as reply to Arjuna's question:
>> अपरं भवतो जन्म परं जन्म विवस्वतः ।
>> कथमेतद्विजानीयां त्वमादौ प्रोक्तवानिति ॥ ४ ॥ 4.4
>> अपरम् अर्वाक् वसुदेवगृहे भवतो जन्म । परं पूर्वं सर्गादौ जन्म उत्पत्तिः
>> विवस्वतः आदित्यस्य । तत् कथम् एतत् विजानीयाम् अविरुद्धार्थतया, यः त्वमेव
>> आदौ प्रोक्तवान् इमं योगं स एव इदानीं मह्यं प्रोक्तवानसि इति ॥ ४ ॥
>> Arjuna asks: Vivasvaan was there before. You have taken birth now. How
>> can we understand that it was You who taught that yoga to vivasvan? In the
>> Bhashya it is said: in vasudeva's house you were born now, in this janma.
>> Bhagavan replies:
>> बहूनि मे व्यतीतानि जन्मानि तव चार्जुन ।
>> तान्यहं वेद सर्वाणि न त्वं वेत्थ परन्तप ॥ ५ ॥ 4.5
>> Many have been the births/lives/bodies that have come and gone for you
>> and for me.
>> Bhashya: बहूनि मे मम व्यतीतानि अतिक्रान्तानि जन्मानि तव च हे अर्जुन ।
>> atikrAntNani = they have gone, passed away.
>> In the second chapter:
>> न त्वेवाहं जातु नासं न त्वं नेमे जनाधिपाः ।
>> न चैव न भविष्यामः सर्वे वयमतः परम् ॥ १२ ॥
>> Bhagavan counts himself, that is, his body, Arjuna's and all other people
>> in the battlefield. And says: we have all been before this body birth and
>> will be after this body has gone too.
>>
>> Now taking all the above we have to conclude: Since Bhagavan himself says
>> that 'many bodies of mine have come and gone', the avatara sharirams are
>> not eternal. In Advaita, we do accept a nitya Ishwara, who has no niyata,
>> default, body. That Ishwara is a saguna nirakara tattvam. For specific
>> purposes it can take bodies and when the purpose is over that body
>> disappears. This appearance and disappearance are what to be seen as coming
>> and going of the avatara shariram on the words of Bhagavan himself. Just
>> like there is a nitya jiva/Atman Arjuna, there is a nitya/Atma Ishwara.
>> Arjuna's arjuna body is incidental, so is Ishwara's Krishna body.
>>
>> Thus it would have to be understood as: There is One nitya Ishwara and
>> many (anitya) Krishna, etc. bodies. It is in this sense one would talk of
>> 'Two Krishna-s'.  At least in Advaita, this is how it is.
>>
>> Om Tat Sat
>> subbu
>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> On Friday, 11 April 2025 at 11:02:43 pm UTC+5:30 v.subrahmanian wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRholdfu_GM
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "advaitin" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to advaitin+u... at googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/c556742c-aa55-4ecc-9efd-2dc8998a88d3n%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/c556742c-aa55-4ecc-9efd-2dc8998a88d3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "advaitin" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/dae4fafb-8f6b-4573-bb52-80e25dbaf7a1n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/dae4fafb-8f6b-4573-bb52-80e25dbaf7a1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>