[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Bhagavad Gita - As it actually is | Sanatana Dharma | Sri Shankara Bhagavatpada & Bhakti | Sringeri

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste ji
A follow-up point
“The ONLY Entity  what we understand as Shakti is Shuddha Brahman or
NirguNa Brahman. All else are inert. When it is said that mayA is Shakti ,
it should be understood  only in a figurative sense. mAyA which is inert
derives its capacity to act as a shakti from Shuddha Brahman/Shuddha
Chaitanya only. The ONLY Shakti or Shakta is Shuddha”

I understand you to be saying -
The word Shakti is being used as a synonym for Ishvara and this Shakti is
non-different from shaktimat which is shuddha brahman

You said “mAyA is Shakti” is only figurative.  (ie its actually
triguNAtmikA/inert).

What, in the above framework would be the word for the relation between
Shakti (aka Ishvara) and inert mAyA?

Om
Raghav



On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 at 2:36 PM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Raghav Ji,
>
> // mAyA can directly be equated as shuddha brahman who is shaktimat (by
> shakti-shaktimat ananyatvaM) //,
>
> No. Not mAyA. Ishwara. As in the second paragraph of your mail.
>
> Incidentally you have not addressed it to the Forums. Accordingly my reply
> also is only to you.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 2:30 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <
> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Chandramouliji
>>
>> Noted the key points about BGB 14.27 that mAyA can directly be equated as
>> shuddha brahman who is shaktimat (by shakti-shaktimat ananyatvaM)  carrying
>> the meaning of jnAnaM (without necessarily having to bringing in Sagunam
>> brahma or sopadhikam brahma as the intermediate concept or entity as a
>> stepping stone).
>>
>> Also the phrase Ishvara-Shakti (at least in this context)
>> is not Ishvarasya shakti, rather it is
>> IshvaraH Eva Shakti who is non-separate from shuddha Brahma (the
>> “shaktimat”).
>>
>> Thank you
>> Om
>> Raghav
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 at 11:02 AM, H S Chandramouli <
>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Raghav Ji,
>>>
>>> Reg  // The word Brahman used in the above context, brahma pratiShThate
>>> pravartate,
>>> is saguNam brahma?
>>> It might amount to saying IshvaraH shaktyA pravartatE. (as in saya, a
>>> magician wields his magical power) //,
>>>
>>> The statement here in BG14-27 is the Final say of Advaita SiddhAnta.  In
>>> my understanding what the Bhashya states is as under.
>>>
>>> The ONLY Entity  what we understand as Shakti is Shuddha Brahman or
>>> NirguNa Brahman. All else are inert. When it is said that mayA is Shakti ,
>>> it should be understood  only in a figurative sense. mAyA which is inert
>>> derives its capacity to act as a shakti from Shuddha Brahman/Shuddha
>>> Chaitanya only. The ONLY Shakti or Shakta is Shuddha Brahman.
>>>
>>> The same observation applies to the term saguNam brahma also.
>>>
>>> In this sense, Shakti is equivalent of  Jnanam  as in ** सत्यं
>>> ज्ञानमनन्तं ब्रह्म ।** (satyaM j~nAnamanantaM brahma |).
>>>
>>> Instead of my elaborating  further, it is much more enjoyable to just
>>> ponder over this part of BGB 14-27 on these lines in your own way !!
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 7:33 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste Chandramouliji
>>>> Thank you for the discussion on BGB 14.27
>>>> यया च ईश्वरशक्त्या भक्तानुग्रहादिप्रयोजनाय ब्रह्म प्रतिष्ठते
>>>>  प्रवर्तते, सा शक्तिः ब्रह्मैव अहम् , शक्तिशक्तिमतोः अनन्यत्वात्
>>>> इत्यभिप्रायः । //
>>>>
>>>> The word Brahman used in the above context, brahma pratiShThate
>>>> pravartate,
>>>> is saguNam brahma?
>>>>
>>>> It might amount to saying IshvaraH shaktyA pravartatE. (as in say, a
>>>> magician wields his magical power).
>>>>
>>>> Can you please clarify?
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>> Om
>>>> Raghav
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 at 5:42 PM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Namaste Bhaskar Ji,
>>>> >
>>>> > Reg // And when it has been well established that the jagat which is
>>>> an
>>>> > effect of Brahman is itself non-different from Brahman //,
>>>> >
>>>> > //  another synonym of this mAya i.e. avyAkruta also clearly said
>>>> brahman
>>>> > and nothing but brahman before creation and there is no difference
>>>> between
>>>> > these two!! //.
>>>> >
>>>> > The term avyAkruta  is understood differently in different contexts
>>>> in the
>>>> > Bhashya. In some places it addresses Atman itself. In some other
>>>> places it
>>>> > addresses Iswara (Shuddha Brahman or Atman with mAyA). In yet other
>>>> places
>>>> > it addresses just mAyA or jagat. This is stated so in the Bhashya
>>>> itself.
>>>> >
>>>> > An effect maybe  nondifferent from cause. But it cannot be said cause
>>>> is
>>>> > nondifferent from effect. Jagat is neither different nor nondifferent
>>>> from
>>>> >  Shuddha Brahman. mAyA also is neither different nor nondifferent from
>>>> > Shuddha Brahman.
>>>> >
>>>> > I have given the Bhashya reference BGB 14-27 for your earlier
>>>> citation and
>>>> > the implications thereof. That Bhashya part does not state mAyA or
>>>> jagat as
>>>> > nondifferent from Shuddha Brahman. But it does state Shakti to be
>>>> > understood as Iswara Shakti (meaning thereby Iswara itself as Shakti
>>>> and
>>>> > not Iswara’s Shakti) . This is ananya with Shuddha Brahman.
>>>> >
>>>> > But I do agree that we have addressed  this issue several times
>>>> earlier
>>>> > without agreement.
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 5:01 PM Bhaskar YR <
>>>> bhaskar.yr at hitachienergy.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > It does not posit ananyatvam as between Brahman and mAyA. On the
>>>> other
>>>> > > hand, it presents Shuddha Brahman and Iswara as ananya.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > BGB  14-27 // … यया च ईश्वरशक्त्या भक्तानुग्रहादिप्रयोजनाय ब्रह्म
>>>> > > प्रतिष्ठते प्रवर्तते, सा शक्तिः ब्रह्मैव अहम् , शक्तिशक्तिमतोः
>>>> > अनन्यत्वात्
>>>> > >  इत्यभिप्रायः । //
>>>> > >
>>>> > > // …..yayA cha IshvarashaktyA bhaktAnugrahAdiprayojanAya brahma
>>>> > > pratiShThate pravartate, sA shaktiH brahmaiva aham ,
>>>> shaktishaktimatoH
>>>> > > ananyatvAt ityabhiprAyaH | //
>>>> > >
>>>> > > praNAms Sri ChandramouLi prabhuji
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Hare Krishna
>>>> > >
>>>> > > For the sake of brevity I have deleted rest of your message (Kannada
>>>> > > translation as well).  If the Ishwara tattva is clear then I think
>>>> > > ananyatvaM between Ishwara and brahman and Ishwara and his shakti
>>>> (mAya)
>>>> > > can easily be understood.  Here you are saying that brahman and
>>>> Ishwara
>>>> > as
>>>> > > ananya but brahman and mAya are different.  I am not able to
>>>> understand
>>>> > > this.  Is this  Ishwara without shakti or with shakti??  With shakti
>>>> > > (sarvashakta) jnAna (sarvajna) brahman itself called Ishwara is it
>>>> not??
>>>> > > When it is called Ishwara (brahman) and his shakti NOT different, I
>>>> am
>>>> > > really not able to understand anyatvaM (difference) between mAya and
>>>> > > brahman.  The mAya carries synonym ‘mUlaprakruti’ and it has been
>>>> said
>>>> > that
>>>> > > it is brahman, another synonym ‘akshara’ has again been equated with
>>>> > > brahman, and another synonym of this mAya i.e. avyAkruta also
>>>> clearly
>>>> > said
>>>> > > brahman and nothing but brahman before creation and there is no
>>>> > difference
>>>> > > between these two!!  So, I am really unable to understand your
>>>> equation
>>>> > > i.e. Ishwara=brahman BUT mAya is NOT equal to brahman.  Here what
>>>> exactly
>>>> > > is the difference between Ishwara (with  mAya) and brahman to say
>>>> they
>>>> > are
>>>> > > different and what strikes the equality between brahman and ishwara
>>>> > > (without mAya)!!??
>>>> > >
>>>> > > And when it has been well established that the jagat which is an
>>>> effect
>>>> > of
>>>> > > Brahman is itself non-different from Brahman, does it not follow
>>>> > > automatically that Brahma mAyA too is not different from Brahman?
>>>> Or am I
>>>> > > missing something here??
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>>> > >
>>>> > > bhaskar
>>>> > >
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