[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Bhagavad Gita - As it actually is | Sanatana Dharma | Sri Shankara Bhagavatpada & Bhakti | Sringeri

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

Due to some urgent family work, I will be inactive here for a little while.
The discussion has certainly helped me to improve my understanding of the
topic. Thanks

Regards



On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 6:20 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Raghav JI,
>
> Reg  // What, in the above framework would be the word for the relation
> between Shakti (aka Ishvara) and inert mAyA? //,
>
> My understanding would be as under.
>
> Combination of mAyA and Shuddha Brahman  is Iswara. mAyA vishishta Shuddha
> Brahman is Iswara. Needless to say , as per SDV.
>
> mAyA is a heterogeneous entity. Not a homogeneous one. It includes within
> itself several parts. All the parts are triguNAtmikA/inert. The parts
> provide the means for Creation jnAna/kriyA/IcchA shakti. (shakti here is
> used in a different sense than above). As also the material needed for
> Creation. Many of these parts  as also mAyA itself are also referred to by
> terms like avidyA, avyakta,prakriti, avyakruta  etc at different places in
> the Bhashya. Intended meaning is to be ascertained as per context. It is
> best to refer to texts like Vichara Sagara, for example, for a detailed
> understanding.
> Regards
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 2:55 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <
> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste ji
>> A follow-up point
>> “The ONLY Entity  what we understand as Shakti is Shuddha Brahman or
>> NirguNa Brahman. All else are inert. When it is said that mayA is Shakti ,
>> it should be understood  only in a figurative sense. mAyA which is inert
>> derives its capacity to act as a shakti from Shuddha Brahman/Shuddha
>> Chaitanya only. The ONLY Shakti or Shakta is Shuddha”
>>
>> I understand you to be saying -
>> The word Shakti is being used as a synonym for Ishvara and this Shakti is
>> non-different from shaktimat which is shuddha brahman
>>
>> You said “mAyA is Shakti” is only figurative.  (ie its actually
>> triguNAtmikA/inert).
>>
>> What, in the above framework would be the word for the relation between
>> Shakti (aka Ishvara) and inert mAyA?
>>
>> Om
>> Raghav
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 at 2:36 PM, H S Chandramouli <
>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Raghav Ji,
>>>
>>> // mAyA can directly be equated as shuddha brahman who is shaktimat (by
>>> shakti-shaktimat ananyatvaM) //,
>>>
>>> No. Not mAyA. Ishwara. As in the second paragraph of your mail.
>>>
>>> Incidentally you have not addressed it to the Forums. Accordingly my
>>> reply also is only to you.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 2:30 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <
>>> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste Chandramouliji
>>>>
>>>> Noted the key points about BGB 14.27 that mAyA can directly be equated
>>>> as shuddha brahman who is shaktimat (by shakti-shaktimat ananyatvaM)
>>>>  carrying the meaning of jnAnaM (without necessarily having to bringing in
>>>> Sagunam brahma or sopadhikam brahma as the intermediate concept or entity
>>>> as a stepping stone).
>>>>
>>>> Also the phrase Ishvara-Shakti (at least in this context)
>>>> is not Ishvarasya shakti, rather it is
>>>> IshvaraH Eva Shakti who is non-separate from shuddha Brahma (the
>>>> “shaktimat”).
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>> Om
>>>> Raghav
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 at 11:02 AM, H S Chandramouli <
>>>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Namaste Raghav Ji,
>>>>>
>>>>> Reg  // The word Brahman used in the above context, brahma
>>>>> pratiShThate pravartate,
>>>>> is saguNam brahma?
>>>>> It might amount to saying IshvaraH shaktyA pravartatE. (as in saya, a
>>>>> magician wields his magical power) //,
>>>>>
>>>>> The statement here in BG14-27 is the Final say of Advaita SiddhAnta.
>>>>> In my understanding what the Bhashya states is as under.
>>>>>
>>>>> The ONLY Entity  what we understand as Shakti is Shuddha Brahman or
>>>>> NirguNa Brahman. All else are inert. When it is said that mayA is Shakti ,
>>>>> it should be understood  only in a figurative sense. mAyA which is inert
>>>>> derives its capacity to act as a shakti from Shuddha Brahman/Shuddha
>>>>> Chaitanya only. The ONLY Shakti or Shakta is Shuddha Brahman.
>>>>>
>>>>> The same observation applies to the term saguNam brahma also.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this sense, Shakti is equivalent of  Jnanam  as in ** सत्यं
>>>>> ज्ञानमनन्तं ब्रह्म ।** (satyaM j~nAnamanantaM brahma |).
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of my elaborating  further, it is much more enjoyable to just
>>>>> ponder over this part of BGB 14-27 on these lines in your own way !!
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 7:33 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Namaste Chandramouliji
>>>>>> Thank you for the discussion on BGB 14.27
>>>>>> यया च ईश्वरशक्त्या भक्तानुग्रहादिप्रयोजनाय ब्रह्म प्रतिष्ठते
>>>>>>  प्रवर्तते, सा शक्तिः ब्रह्मैव अहम् , शक्तिशक्तिमतोः अनन्यत्वात्
>>>>>> इत्यभिप्रायः । //
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The word Brahman used in the above context, brahma pratiShThate
>>>>>> pravartate,
>>>>>> is saguNam brahma?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It might amount to saying IshvaraH shaktyA pravartatE. (as in say, a
>>>>>> magician wields his magical power).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you please clarify?
>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Om
>>>>>> Raghav
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 at 5:42 PM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Namaste Bhaskar Ji,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Reg // And when it has been well established that the jagat which
>>>>>> is an
>>>>>> > effect of Brahman is itself non-different from Brahman //,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > //  another synonym of this mAya i.e. avyAkruta also clearly said
>>>>>> brahman
>>>>>> > and nothing but brahman before creation and there is no difference
>>>>>> between
>>>>>> > these two!! //.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The term avyAkruta  is understood differently in different contexts
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> > Bhashya. In some places it addresses Atman itself. In some other
>>>>>> places it
>>>>>> > addresses Iswara (Shuddha Brahman or Atman with mAyA). In yet other
>>>>>> places
>>>>>> > it addresses just mAyA or jagat. This is stated so in the Bhashya
>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > An effect maybe  nondifferent from cause. But it cannot be said
>>>>>> cause is
>>>>>> > nondifferent from effect. Jagat is neither different nor
>>>>>> nondifferent from
>>>>>> >  Shuddha Brahman. mAyA also is neither different nor nondifferent
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> > Shuddha Brahman.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I have given the Bhashya reference BGB 14-27 for your earlier
>>>>>> citation and
>>>>>> > the implications thereof. That Bhashya part does not state mAyA or
>>>>>> jagat as
>>>>>> > nondifferent from Shuddha Brahman. But it does state Shakti to be
>>>>>> > understood as Iswara Shakti (meaning thereby Iswara itself as
>>>>>> Shakti and
>>>>>> > not Iswara’s Shakti) . This is ananya with Shuddha Brahman.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > But I do agree that we have addressed  this issue several times
>>>>>> earlier
>>>>>> > without agreement.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Regards
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 5:01 PM Bhaskar YR <
>>>>>> bhaskar.yr at hitachienergy.com>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > It does not posit ananyatvam as between Brahman and mAyA. On the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> > > hand, it presents Shuddha Brahman and Iswara as ananya.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > BGB  14-27 // … यया च ईश्वरशक्त्या भक्तानुग्रहादिप्रयोजनाय ब्रह्म
>>>>>> > > प्रतिष्ठते प्रवर्तते, सा शक्तिः ब्रह्मैव अहम् , शक्तिशक्तिमतोः
>>>>>> > अनन्यत्वात्
>>>>>> > >  इत्यभिप्रायः । //
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > // …..yayA cha IshvarashaktyA bhaktAnugrahAdiprayojanAya brahma
>>>>>> > > pratiShThate pravartate, sA shaktiH brahmaiva aham ,
>>>>>> shaktishaktimatoH
>>>>>> > > ananyatvAt ityabhiprAyaH | //
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > praNAms Sri ChandramouLi prabhuji
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Hare Krishna
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > For the sake of brevity I have deleted rest of your message
>>>>>> (Kannada
>>>>>> > > translation as well).  If the Ishwara tattva is clear then I think
>>>>>> > > ananyatvaM between Ishwara and brahman and Ishwara and his shakti
>>>>>> (mAya)
>>>>>> > > can easily be understood.  Here you are saying that brahman and
>>>>>> Ishwara
>>>>>> > as
>>>>>> > > ananya but brahman and mAya are different.  I am not able to
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> > > this.  Is this  Ishwara without shakti or with shakti??  With
>>>>>> shakti
>>>>>> > > (sarvashakta) jnAna (sarvajna) brahman itself called Ishwara is
>>>>>> it not??
>>>>>> > > When it is called Ishwara (brahman) and his shakti NOT different,
>>>>>> I am
>>>>>> > > really not able to understand anyatvaM (difference) between mAya
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> > > brahman.  The mAya carries synonym ‘mUlaprakruti’ and it has been
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> > that
>>>>>> > > it is brahman, another synonym ‘akshara’ has again been equated
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> > > brahman, and another synonym of this mAya i.e. avyAkruta also
>>>>>> clearly
>>>>>> > said
>>>>>> > > brahman and nothing but brahman before creation and there is no
>>>>>> > difference
>>>>>> > > between these two!!  So, I am really unable to understand your
>>>>>> equation
>>>>>> > > i.e. Ishwara=brahman BUT mAya is NOT equal to brahman.  Here what
>>>>>> exactly
>>>>>> > > is the difference between Ishwara (with  mAya) and brahman to say
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> > are
>>>>>> > > different and what strikes the equality between brahman and
>>>>>> ishwara
>>>>>> > > (without mAya)!!??
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > And when it has been well established that the jagat which is an
>>>>>> effect
>>>>>> > of
>>>>>> > > Brahman is itself non-different from Brahman, does it not follow
>>>>>> > > automatically that Brahma mAyA too is not different from Brahman?
>>>>>> Or am I
>>>>>> > > missing something here??
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > bhaskar
>>>>>> > >
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>>>>>