[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Illusoriness of causation (cause-effect-relationship)

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Sudhanshu prabhuji
Hare Krishna

//We must wonder how palatable these statements are to purely dry logicians who prefer mere tarka over bhAshya and shruti??//

Prabhu ji. How have you arrived at the conclusion that bhAshya and Shruti are correct and that you should follow them. Is it through fanatic faith, emotional appeal or some other manner? Please elaborate.


Ø     It is through Aapta vAkya as the pramANa.  You know something called Apta vAkya as a valid pramANa, in your childhood you listen to your parents, teachers, elders etc.  without logically scrutinizing / doubting their instructions.  It is just like that, in the path of jnAna mArga you / we are still kids you should have conviction in the pramANa of the guru-Acharya vAkya without looking at it with your logically conditioned mind.

//shrutyanugraheeta tarka / yukti does not mean anything to them!!  And for them shruti is NOT the untya pramANa for the brahma jignAsa but tarka/logic is the pramANa over shruti despite shruti itself saying that naishA tarkeNa matirApaneya (its knowledge cannot be obtained through mere logic.//

As explained in response to Michael ji's post. Regarding "नैषा तर्केण मतिरापनेया", please refer to "अद्वैतं किमागममात्रेण प्रतिपत्तव्यम् , आहोस्वित्तर्केणापीत्यत आह — शक्यते तर्केणापि ज्ञातुम् ; तत्कथमित्यद्वैतप्रकरणमारभ्यते ।". If you insert that tarka must reuire Shruti, then you are contradicting kArikA because it says that advaita is not only through Shruti.


Ø     So you are holding this kArika as pramANa and arguing that shruti is NOT the untya pramANa in brahma jignAsa any conditioned mind with ‘socalled’ logical backdrop can determine what that brahman is without the help of shAstra !!  Yes for brahma jignAsa shruti is not only the pramANa but anubhavAdi also bhAshyakAra too says but note that this anubhavAdi (experience etc.) not free from shrutyanugraheeta, pUrNAnubhava and anubhava sammata tarka to erroneously argue OK I can deduce brahma jnAna with mere dry logic I don’t need bhAshya nor shruti.  Are you really a saMpradAyavAdi or mere tArkika ??  Please let me know which vyAkhyAnakAra floating these type of asampradAyik statements in his works!!

So, it needs to be appreciated that truth can be described or found through logic as well as through Shruti.


  *   Again you are making blunder here.  There are no two alternatives here one in conditioned mind’s dry logic and another one is shruti.  Tarka mananaM should be endorsed by shruti and pUrNAnubhava and not the other way round i.e. dry logic should put clearance / acceptance label on shruti verdict.  There is no end to the logical conclusions which has been originated through the conditioned / qualified mind…where human logic ends and accepts its limitations from there shruti starts.

Neither logic per se is important nor Shruti per se. They both are important because they both lead to thruth. Shruti is important not because it is Shruti but because it contains truth.


Ø     How do you know that shruti contains truth!!??  Through your conditioned mind’s logic?? or through Apta vAkya and shraddha in sampradaya Acharya’s words??  If you are holding 1-1-2 sutra bhAshya to say something nonsense like above then please note there also bhAshyakAra not talking about dry logic which has limited boundary as it is restricted to individual mind’s intellect.

MantrAs glorifying Shruti is on account of Shruti containing truth.


Ø     And for the shruti and its truth, brahman is the source which cannot be ascertained by any conditioned dry logic to declare shruti per se not important and and ‘my’ logic also can serve this purpose!! Again I am really surprised asaMpradAyik statements like this sneaking in without being questioned by socalled official flag bearers of shAstra/ sampradaya 😊

//But even for these categorical statements also logicians have their own excuses to replace logic over shruti verdict.//

Because in the garb of being vaidika, one should not be actually an emotional fanatic.


Ø     The other name of this fanaticism is shraddha and bhakti in shAstra, sampradaya, guru and Acharya, and I know in the atheist/tArkika conditioned mind these terms mean nothing.

//But being vaidika-s NOT mere dry logicians we have to completely rely on the supremacy of the shruti pramANa and shruti anugraheeta tarka when doing the mananaM.//

Again, how have you arrived at the conclusion that Shruti is pramANa?


Ø     I am sorry for asking this question, how do you know that you are the son of your own parents??  Just because they said so or have you used any / some logical device to determine that ??


  *   Because Shruti says so? - then anyOnyAshraya.
  *   Because Shankara says so? - then you are a fanatic.

  *   Over dose of mere speculations born out of dry logic making you to pass these type of dreadful statements.  For those who follow shankara and shruti are doing so as it is for them AptavAkya, only tArkika-s who do not have any respect to shAstra-saMpradAya, guru-Acharya can make some statements like this…

  *   Because logic says so? - Here is a welcome refreshing glass of lemon-mint-squash in my camp!! 😀

  *   You can live in your delusional  logical world,no issues 😊 But those who know sampradaya, those who respect their Acharya, Acharya vAkya know that only shruti, shrutyanugraheeta tarka based on pUrNAnubhava permitted in brahma jignAsa.  And they know very well kevala tarka, nirAgama tarka, shushka tarka etc. which you are passionately promoting here in this list are simply shruti viruddha, nishpramANakavAdaM and goes against anubhava as well.  We the fanatic followers of shankara knows what verdict our Acharya given on kevala tArkika-s..By the way since you are not the fanatic I don’t have to quote what my Acharya says on ‘kevala tarka’.

That is quite clear. To speak of some mrit-sAmAnya as nirvikAra is rejected by an eight-grade student.. no, even a seventh class student. Sir, what is mrit-sAmAnya? Explain. Without activity, how does this nirvikAra mrit-sAmAnya transforms to pot. And how many nirvikAra entities do you have in your book? mrit-sAmAnya, swarNa-sAmAnya?


  *   I can understand your frustration here resulting in bAlisha (childish) conclusions about these examples in shruti.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar