[Advaita-l] Modern timelines and Shastras

[Vishesh Bhat]

Namaste,

Just my probably redundant take on this issue. I am currently what most
would call as a researcher in a supposedly "reputed" research institute
abroad. I am definitely nowhere close to an expert in either science or
Spirituality. For a long time I had the usual doubts a scientific person
has about most religious beliefs and practices. My current understanding is
science is inherently flawed in more ways than a scientist cares to admit.
There are serious inconsistencies that are usually sidestepped even in an
area like mathematics which I work in. And science is guided by empiricism
and rationalism. There are scientific truths which can neither be verified
or falsified.

A more "pseudo-scientific" perspective that I hold is that some of the
events outlined in the Puranas  probably relate to a different plane of
reality than the one we currently operate or transact in. So I don't think
a reconciliation makes sense.

But that doesnt make our Shastras or the deities any less valuable. There
is  an unimaginable power in the Shastra rituals that science can neither
verify or deny. They run on parallel  tracks. And the science track
probably does not go all the way.

On Wed, 22 Jan 2025, 01:59 Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Kaushik
>
> You may want to check out the total lack of clarity amongst scientists and
> archeologists regarding reaching conclusions about the dating of human
> civilization and also see the presence of alternative hypotheses.
>
> https://youtu.be/ILTlynOG5BM?feature=shared
>
>
> https://youtube.com/shorts/4RrKK-_W7iU?feature=shared
>
>
> Also a recent discovery - "The Neolithic site of Göbekli Tepe in Turkey was
> inhabited between 9,600 and 8,200 BCE. The final building phases of the
> site took place around 8000 BCE.
>
> Current evidence is that at least 300,000 years of human beings just like
> us have definitely lived on Planet Earth.
>
> The last ice age (or inter-glacial) which ended around 9000 BC,  created a
> huge disruption or discontinuity in human history. All recent civilizations
> are dated to after this latest inter-glacial age. But vedic timelines and
> historical memory stretches beyond or earlier to this global ecological
> catastrophe during the last inter-glacial period around (around 9000 BCE.)
>
>
> Having said that, the key to the larger discussion is that we the Astikas
> assert the cetana-kAraNatvaM of jagat, while many of the scientists insist
> on jaDa-kAraNatvaM. "To say that a universe follows "mathematically
> expressible laws" and "patterns" is "jaDa" is
> self-contradictory.
>
>  With jaDa-kAraNatvaM being negated, then alone veda-prAmANya along with
> alternative hypotheses of longer human civilizational timelines and the
> historical kernel in the purANas can be asserted.
>
> Similarly, it's not necessary to assert that everything is purANas is
> literal or historical 100%. That was not the intention. The basic facts of
> older timelines is however unexceptionably a key paurANika assertion and
> has to be defended against early dates for Indian civilization - a key
> Marxist and missionary project. But we Astikas need not treat purANas are
> lliterally true to the letter. Also the exact timeline calculations are
> done differently by different Astikas scholars too. This however is a side
> issue.
>
> This, let's say, someone appreciates that the jaDa-kAraNatvaM of everything
> is untenable. That is a good starting point to appreciate the vedic
> perspective.
>
> Otherwise, to assert veda-prAmANya without clearing the weeds of wrong and
> illogical ideas in a modern person's mind may be difficult.
>
> A wrong or at least weak defense is that science deals with anAtmA while
> veda deals with atIndriya viShayas, so there is no conflict since their
> prameya domains are different. While this pramANa based approach to defend
> veda-prAmANya is not wholly wrong, it still defers to modern science on
> many matters where veda would be pramANa and thus it amounts to
> compromising veda prAmANyam in many areas where Vedas and current
> scientific models have competing visions. One such area is the idea that
> the rise of intelligent human life was a random process - a patently absurd
> assertion, as is becoming clear even from mathematics using probabilistic
> models.
>
>
> Om
> Raghav
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Jan, 2025, 4:29 pm Kaushik Chevendra via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste,
> > One genuine doubt that keeps bothering me is the timelines of shatras and
> > the modern science timelines of the world. The shastras talk about
> various
> > yugas and from starting of creation as to how mankind has been there and
> > the chaturvarnas being present. However the modern day science says that
> > the civilisations of man are not older than 3000-5000 years. Is there any
> > way of reconciling this?
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