[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Illusoriness of causation (cause-effect-relationship)

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Michael ji.

Sorry but I don't know where Sankara might have said it is antahkara vritti
> or even brahmakara vritti that causes liberation as your quote states. Nor,
> do I read SDV/ DSV in Gaudapada nor Bhasyakara however it is quite evident
> in later Vedanta and elsewhere. i know you disagree but I'll stand with
> Prof. Timalsinaji in observing a paucity of actual PTB reference. These are
> issues vigorously argued here that we needn't resuscitate now.
>

One basic question Michael ji. What is this fuss about finding quotes in
PTB? If something is not quoted in PTB, does it cease to be a truth?

Regarding AtmAkAra-vritti, akhanDAkAra-vritti or BrahmAkAra-vritti, there
are sufficient indicators present in bhAshya. We can discuss it separately.

You say BUbh4.4.6 describes jivanmukti but the last line seems to indicate
> otherwise, "for if liberation was a change of condition, it would
> contradict the unity of the Self that all the Upanishads seek to teach."
>

Liberation is not a change of condition of self, because self is
changeless. From the frame of reference of ignorance, it is the extinction
of perception of hitherto apparent ignorance.


> //What is misconception? Isn't it an activity? How can activity be
> permitted in nishkriya Brahman?//
> --Adhyasa is naisargarika - no activity.
>

Naisargika does not mean inactive. Naisargika means natural. Nisarg means
nature. So, you will have to explain the question.

//What is liberation? Is it an event in time which happens post
> "right-knowledge"? No. Liberation is ever-present. Even now when one thinks
> that he is in bondage, he is actually free. So, where is the question of
> death for liberation!!//
> -- That's my argument! Avidya-lesa contradicts this.
>

avidyA-lesha does not contradict what I said. Please explain how does it
contradict?

--The whole issue is the status of perception. Is there a mithya ajnana
> positive perception or is it simply Brahman wrong perceived. Let's take it
> to dream. Are dream perceptions something other than Consciousness
> appearing to be differentiated? If you say they're thoughts/vasanas, you
> reify mind and take your stand with a waker's bias.
>

Obviously dream-perceptions are something other than nishkriya Brahman. So
many activities appear in dream. How can it be nishkriya Brahman.

Yes, mind and its ideas are wrong. Namarupa only. Ignorance and liberation
> also wrong ideas. PSA needs to discover WHY/HOW/Creation because of being
> locked into an actual bhavarupa avidya.
>

There is nothing "actual" about bhAvarUpa-avidyA. You have not answered
pin-pointed question "What do you mean by "wrong idea"? Is it horns of
hare? What vastu is it? Is it a mental transformation? If yes, then is mind
itself not wrong idea? If yes, then it is infinite regress."

Namaste Raghav ji.

//Does PTB mention anywhere the fact that functioning  ears are required
for shastra shravaNam? Since followers of SSS don’t see the self-evident
fact that antaHkaraNa vRttis arise and are instrumental in all pramANa
operation including both shabda and pratyaxa etc., I got the doubt!//

One needs authority about issues for which one has no clarity. I don't have
an iota of understanding about swarga and Yajna. So, I seek knowledge from
VedAs and treat it as authority.

But about Atma-jnAna? Sure, we need help from Guru and shAstra. But not in
a way we seek help in matters of Yajna and swarga.

The approach by SSSS ji is like that. See, here is a dictum by Shankara.
Shankara has said so and so. And hence it is a pramANa. No room for logic.
Shruti has said this. Stop arguing. Etc etc.

This is basically fanaticism. And no logical or rather sane discussion can
happen. Just as is the case with ISKCON people, same with SSSS ji's
followers. There is something like "as it is" syndrome. 🙂

Regards.
Sudhanshu Shekhar.