[Advaita-l] Ishwara though formless, takes a sākāra form for the benefit of all - Agasthya Samhitā

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear Raghav ji,

I agree with you.

regards
subbu

On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 2:22 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <
raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Subbuji
> I remember you mentioning that even these divine forms of īśvara are
> pāñcabhautika according to (certain acāryas of) vedānta. There was some
> debate on this no doubt.
>
> Along such lines - The śarīra-s are pārthiva in bhūloka and vāyavīya and
> ākāsīya in successively higher lokas like tapo loka and satya loka - this
> is as per brahma sutra.
>
> Śrī Appayya Dīkṣitendra places vaikunṭha and kailāśa as aspects of satya
> loka.
>
> Taking all of the above into account, it implies,  īśvara by his māyā
> śakti, in order to bless devotees, takes on pārthiva and (more subtle)
> ākāśīya śarīras, (respectively) in bhūloka (avatāras like śrī rāma) and
> satya loka (forms like śrī mahāviṣṇu, maheśvara etc).
>
> Om
> Raghav
>
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2025 at 11:54 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 7:22 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Subbu ji
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 9 Oct 2025 at 4:35 PM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > In the Agastya Samhita, we hear:
>>> >
>>> > ईश्वर उवाच
>>> >
>>> > शृणुष्वावहिता देवि यदेतत्प्रतिपाद्यते ।
>>> >
>>> > सर्वेश्वरः सर्वमयः सर्वभूतहिते रतः ।।२।।
>>> >
>>> > सर्वेषामुपकाराय साकारोऽभून्निराकृतिः।
>>> >
>>> > स भक्तवत्सलो लोके संसारीव व्यचेष्टत । भक्तानुकम्पया देवो दुःखं
>>> > सुखमिवान्वभूत ॥ यदा यदा च भक्तानां भयमुत्पद्यते तदा । तत्तद्भयविघाताय
>>> > तत्तद्रूपो व्यजायत ॥ — अगस्त्य संहिता ३.३,४,५
>>>
>>>
>>> This experience of sukha and duḥkha (Iva - as though) seems to apply to
>>> avatāras rather than the Bhagavān Viṣṇu etc? Or do we say that even
>>> brahmāji experienced fear as per bṛhadāranyaka - so experience of duḥkha
>>> (as though, no doubt) applies equally to avatāras as well as the more
>>> longer lasting forms like Śrī Mahāviṣṇnu?
>>>
>>> Can we in that case say that the forms of Śrī Rāma and Śrī Mahāviṣṇu are
>>> both quite similar sākāra manifestations with only the bhūloka and Satya
>>> loka being their different places for their līla ?
>>>
>>
>> Dear Raghav ji,
>>
>> Yes, the experience of fear, anxiety, etc. is seen to be there for
>> Mahavishnu and the avataras as well.  In the case of the former we have the
>> examples of Draupadi, Gajendra, etc. calling out to Bhagavan and his
>> responding to them.  It is said that Krishna, in the battle with Jarasandha
>> had to run away several times, may not be due to fear but for other
>> strategic reasons. Sri Rama laments in the Valmiki Ramayana:  Upon the
>> abduction of Seetha, Rama weeps addressing Lakshmana: There can't be a
>> greater sinner than me that I am undergoing misery after misery..
>>
>> One can come up with many such incidents.
>>
>> Logically too, it can be said that even the form of Ksheerabdhi shaayee
>> Vishnu is a manifestation and not the default form.  There can't be a
>> default form for the Brahma Tattvam. The Tattvam is nishkriyam, nirgunam,
>> niraakaaram.  Only Advaita would agree with this.
>>
>> warm regards
>> subbu
>>
>>>
>>> Om
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > हे देवि! मैं जो कह रहा हूँ उसे ध्यानपूर्वक सुनो। निराकार प्रभु जो सबके
>>> > ईश्वर हैं, सभी रूपों में हैं तथा सभी प्राणियों की भलाई में लगे रहते
>>> हैं,
>>> > सबके उपकार के लिए आकार ग्रहण कर अवतार लेते हैं।
>>> >
>>> > ~ अगस्त्यसंहिता अध्याय ३
>>> >
>>> > Ishwara though formless, takes a sākara form for the benefit of all.
>>> The
>>> > same idea of Shankara bhāshya:
>>> >
>>> >  स्यात्परमेश्वरस्यापि इच्छावशात् मायामयं रूपं साधकानुग्रहार्थम् ।
>>>
>>> Always good to read this …. I think it’s your favourite quotation :)
>>>
>>> Om
>>> Raghav
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> >  stated in Agastya samhitā.
>>> >
>>> > warm regards
>>> > subbu
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