[Advaita-l] [advaitin] 'Satyasya Satyam..' of the Upanishad explained in the Bhagavatam

[Vikram Jagannathan]

Namaskaram Michael ji,

<< Reality cannot be partial or not real - the law of excluded middle -
either something exists or does not exist. >>

In a simplified way, the "Law of excluded middle" - a very common stance
taken up by Advaita siddhanta's purvapaksha - is applicable for mutually
exclusive and exhaustive events within the same plane of reference.
When an ajnani perceives a snake, all they see is just the snake; and the
snake is real. For them the rope is non-existent. Law of excluded middle
holds good.
When a jnani perceives a rope, all they see is just the rope; and the rope
is real. For them the snake is non-existent. Law of excluded middle holds
good.
In both these cases, per-se, the "law of excluded middle" is honored.
However, the situation is different when an ajnani gains jnana drishti. The
plane of reference changes, and the previously seen snake is now declared
as mithya. The law of excluded middle is inapplicable in this case with
respect to the earlier perception.

<< It is only a perception taken to be real. >>

Do you agree to the definition of real being unsublated by any other
knowledge at any point in time? If so, flipping your question back to you,
"taken to be real" - does it mean real or not (law of excluded middle)? If
real, it has to continue remaining real and unsublated by a different
prama. Is that the case?

prostrations,
Vikram


On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 12:38 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Michael ji,
>
> Shankara and Sureshwara have accepted three levels of Reality in the
> Taittiriyopanishad.  Here is the blog detailing that:
>
> https://adbhutam.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/paramarthika-vyavaharika-satyam/
>
> warm regards
> subbu
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 5:36 PM Michael Chandra Cohen <
> michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Subbuji,
>>
>> "Relative reality" is misleading and oxymoronic. Reality cannot be
>> partial or not real - the law of excluded middle - either something exists
>> or does not exist. Snake is not a relative reality - it is
>> rope misperceived.  The fear of snake is a reaction to the misperception of
>> rope but not a reaction caused by the 'relative reality' of an imagined
>> snake. To impose reality upon error or misperception whether 'borrowed' or
>> 'relative' or 'temporary' etc. is a misguided teaching.  In that way we
>> need to view vyavaharika. It is only a perception taken to be real.
>> ,
>> Here are 5 pages of citations from SSSS's The Method of the Vedanta/MOV
>> and elsewhere that correct this misunderstanding of Bhasya.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 2:22 AM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 2.3.6 is the famous mantra, a part of
>>> which reads:
>>>
>>> अथात आदेशो नेति नेति न ह्येतस्मादिति नेत्यन्यत्परमस्त्यथ नामधेयं सत्यस्य
>>> सत्यमिति प्राणा वै सत्यं तेषामेष सत्यम् ॥ ६ ॥
>>>
>>>  Now therefore the description (of Brahman): 'Not this, not this.'
>>> Because there is no other and more appropriate description than this 'Not
>>> this.' Now Its name: "The Truth of truth.' The vital force is truth, and It
>>> is the Truth of that.
>>>
>>> The gist of the mantra is: the term 'prāṇā:' signifies the entire
>>> creation, both at the individual level and the cosmic level. At the
>>> individual level we have the subtle body, the sense organs, that illumine
>>> the creation outside the body. The world outside, being insentient, get
>>> illumined by the subtle body/organs. This two-fold categorization can be
>>> compared to the 'kṣetram' (field) of the 13th chapter of the Bh.Gita. There
>>> too in the 5th and the 6th verses the entire kṣetram is presented as
>>> consisting of the subtle body of the individual and the outside world. This
>>> is termed 'satyam', in its primary sense, vācyārtha. And the 'satyam' of
>>> that ('prāṇā:' - kṣetram) is Brahman, the absolute Satyam.
>>>
>>> From the above study of the mantra, we derive the meaning: the first
>>> 'satyam' (satyasya) is the created world. This has only a
>>> dependent/relative reality. It derives its reality from Brahman, the
>>> Absolute Satyam.
>>>
>>> It is interesting to note that we have a verse in the Bhagavatam that
>>> brings out the above two levels of reality:
>>>
>>> आत्मानमेव आत्मतया अविजानतां
>>>
>>> तेनैव जातं निखिलं प्रपञ्चितम् ।
>>>
>>> ज्ञानेन भूयोऽपि च तत्प्रलीयते
>>>
>>> रज्ज्वां अहेर्भोगभवाभवौ यथा ।। 10.14.25
>>>
>>> A person who mistakes a rope for a snake becomes fearful, but he then
>>> gives up his fear upon realizing that the so-called snake does not exist.
>>>
>>> Similarly, for those who fail to recognize You, Brahman, as the Supreme
>>> Soul of all
>>> souls, the *expansive illusory material existence arises,* but knowledge
>>> (realization) of You (Your True Nature) at once causes it  (the
>>> variegated
>>> world of plurality) to subside.
>>>
>>> In the above verse we see the expression of relative reality, the world,
>>> and the Absolute Reality, Brahman. This is exactly the teaching of the
>>> Upanishad through the pithy statement: satyasya satyam.  The rope is the
>>> Satyam and the snake is the satyam, in the analogy of the Bhagavatam. There
>>> itself, the relatively real, the world, is contrasted with the Absolutely
>>> Real, Brahman. The state of ignorance is signified by the world and the
>>> state of realization is conveyed by the term Brahman. One can recall the
>>> verse 2.69:
>>>
>>> या निशा सर्वभूतानां तस्यां जागर्ति संयमी ।
>>>
>>> यस्यां जाग्रति भूतानि सा निशा पश्यतो मुनेः ॥ ६९ ॥
>>>
>>> 2.69 The self-restrained man keeps awake during that which is night for
>>> all creatures. That during which creatures keep awake, it is night to the
>>> seeing sage.
>>>
>>> Here the waking and sleep are symbolic of real and unreal: For the
>>> Jnani, the waking means the Absolute Truth. For the ajnanis waking is to
>>> the relative world.
>>>
>>> The relatively real has no reality of its own and hence is only
>>> dependently real, paratantra satyam. On the other hand, Brahman, the
>>> Absolute Reality, does not need to acquire reality from any other source.
>>> The world needs reality from Brahman. All this is implied by the
>>> Upanishadic statement: satyasya satyam.
>>>
>>> Why does the Upanishad call the vyavaharika, the world, 'satyam'?  The
>>> Upanishad is alluding to, doing anuvāda of, the uninformed person holding
>>> the world to be real, untaught.  This has to be corrected. Hence the
>>> Upanishad *as though* holds the world to be satyam and goes on to
>>> teach, in the manner of 'from the known to the unknown', and the
>>> adhyāropa-apavāda nyāya, the truth that Brahman is indeed the absolute
>>> Satyam.
>>>
>>> There are many such verses in the Bhagavatam that carry the Upanishadic
>>> purport.
>>>
>>> Om Tat Sat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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