talking like a Jnani

[egodust]

Ravi "MSR" wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jun 1996, egodust wrote:
>>
>> When the atmavichara is applied, results can vary.  In my own case,
>> after 30 years or so (the last 2+ in the form of mantrajapa), I no
>> longer dwell on whether or not I'm liberated.  I've come to consider
>> the question itself as a farce.  My personality is a non-consideration.
>>

>
>I would like to hear about practising aatma vichara. To an extent I am
>able to appreciate the idea I am not the body. But to say I am not the
>mind is something I cannot feel for. What stops the mind from being
>self-referential?
>

Namaste.

Nothing.  Simply because the whole procedure entails the Mind itself
engaging in the process of extinguishing itself.  What other phenomenon
can assume its role [of egoic reference] before it's destroyed?

>
>....How do I know that I am not the mind and there is a
>source that illumines the mind and I am that?
>

By steadily responding to "nan yar" with the understanding that NO
conceivable answer can suffice.  Eventually the Mind relinquishes
its obsession with judgements (thoughts).  What follows in its wake
can't be defined, only experienced.

>
>Problem with me is, when I ask "naan yaar" ( who am I) , I get into
>the classical trap where mind starts supplying the answer.  [...]
>

Let it supply answers.  Only you know that they can't possibly
define the Atmanishta.  Therefore the "answers" are meaningless,
whatever they are, no matter how centered in the ideal archetype
of spiritual reality.  The quest for Self transcends all concepts
and precepts.  No relative framework can possibly be settled upon!

>
>  [...]    I am tired
>of it (mind) too, like a pig it revels in the mud of lust and rolls in the
>dirt called anger. What I am to do with it? When a wave of lust
>attacks it, it is tough to stand back say well whatever that happens
>let it happen, I am just a witness. But once I able to do it, it was
>amazing to see that thought winds that bring lust suddenly stopped and
>vanished. But after that moment instead of revelling in the glory of
>victory, mind went quiet and empty, it rather chose to mourn as a
>loser.
>

Of course.  It rebels vigorously when threatened.  And the atmavichara
is its greatest enemy in the world!  It will act out ANY role to get
attention and regain the upper hand.  Whenever it causes any moods
or other theatrics, question it further!  "Who's feeling this mood?"
Ans: "I am."  Question: "Who am I?"  Keep returning to the nan yar.
Be relentless.

>
>Mind I think is a like a dog. I hold it and say my mind. It barks in
>glory saying I am your owner, your but my slave.
>

Only steady sadhana will turn the table on this deception.

>
>Since all these thoughts go only in the Mind and I just a witness, is
>not the mind amazingly beautiful? Why reject the poor thing ! ;-)
>

Until a no-Mind moment hits, no-one can really appreciate why the
Mind has to be rejected.  This is why, in the beginning, we have to
put our faith in the sastras and sages telling us that the Mind needs
to be transcended before we can hope to return to our natural state.

>
>It is like Bharatanatyam, where often the dancer will do part of
>Krishna then go to other side and do the part of Yashoda -- Mind on
>one side assumes that it is the source "I" and tries to kill itself
>on the other side treating it as "the mind". But how will it succeed?
>

Like fire fighting fire; when the fuel is spent, ALL the fire goes out.

As Sri Ramakrishna always tells us, "As one thorn is used to pluck
another from the skin, when it's dislodged, both are discarded."

Hope this helped!

Namaskaaram.  Hari OM.