Is Experience the Same as Knowledge?

[Ms. Aikya Param]

Namaste Rushi cha MitraaNi cha,

Apologies for this too long post.

First of all, HAPPY DIVALI everyone.  For those
Sanskrit and Advaita pandits here in U.S., I also wish
that you go help make the sweets this year because
many others of us, also descended from immigrants,
can tell you that many precious customs are lost over
the generations.  All blessings to all of you and your
families; all success and happiness in the coming
year.

Rishi has asked a question, which is:

Do you distinguish Knowledge from the Experience ?
Isn't the experience itself the knowledge or 'knowing that
I experienced Brahman' is the knowledge ?
And if I am seen at the mental hospital after the experience,
what difference will it make to me?

I would like to reply:
The example of the sunset is helpful here.  Every time you
see a sunset, you see the sun moving.  Even as you are
delighted by the beauty of the sunset, you know that the
sun is still but the earth is moving.

We learn much from experience but experience can be
unreliable. Emotional experiences really show this.  How
many times have you been scared of something which
turned out to be okay, maybe even a big success.
Mayaa, the apparently real, is the realm of experience.
We, if we are well school in this advatia, do not say mayaa
is non-existent, but it's just not as real at satyaM.h.

So yes, very much, you distinguish between knowledge
and experience.  As a student of a qualified teacher, the
knowledge becomes more and more clear but one may
never have a WOW breakthrough experience to be the
exclamation point.  Or someone may have the experience
along with the teaching.  Then that person can "handle"
that experience and still function somewhat  Both the person
who has had this "experience" and the one who has not are
not Gyaanis.

Or, the sad case I described in my previous post,
someone with no background in any of this could have
the experience due to some praarabdhaH and be
terrified.  If the experience happens numerous times,
the person could become unable to function and be confined
to a mental hospital.  To the best of my knowledge this
experience has a certain timing in one's life, and can
be plotted by astrology...something to do with Neptune
and Sun and, since Neptune moves slowly, this experience
could happen multiple times.

This would be anything but
the blissful experience of oneness with everything that
you know from your scriptures.  It would be more like
Arjuna's vision of Krishna in his divine form, but worse.
Arjuna retained his individuality during that experience.
In this other experience the individuality and identification
with one's body goes away. It is extraordinarily disorienting.
Driving a car or operating machinery is definitely OUT.
You don't care if you stop at the stop signs or red lights,
etc.  If you don't have any background, what it seems is
that "you" have been destroyed but you are still aware. Your
consciousness has no particular focus in the body anymore.
You are both everywhere and nowhere and you are not
you anymore.  It is terrifying without knowledge.

Somebody has been talking about staying with the family
to whom you have obligations while remaining devoted to
this vision born of knowledge.  If one goes through the season
of these experiences and has a role in the world and a
family, it is disorienting. With knowledge, you understand
that it is a blessing and you just go through your days a little
slowly and with extraordinary care.  Watch those red lights!

If the knowledge is clear, with or without experiences like
the above described, the body and mind go on for the
rest of life.  This life by praarabdha may involve physical
or mental conditions which others view as the loss of
mental health.  Once the knowledge of identity with
paramaatma is clear, it no longer depends on particular
thoughts because it is knowledge of yourself and you do
not lose or forget yourself.  So the person can have
complete loss of memory, can suffer Alzheimers, etc. but
for that person, behind the nonfunctioning brain, the
knowledge is clear.  Ability to communicate is gone.

My guru explained that to us and I was as usual skeptical.
During our study at the ashram I had a very severe allergic
reaction which was neurological.  It wiped out three years of
memory and, at its worst, made me unable to understand spoken
speech.  Fortunately it cleared up but it did take three four
days.  It was awkward, especially in Sanskrit where my capability,
never splendid, was knocked back to the learning the
alphabet days.   Meanwhile, it proved that what Swamiji said
about the clarity of the knowledge and brain function was true.
Even at the worst of it, as I experienced not being able to
understand people talking to me, I was clear as could be about
##ahambrahmaasmi |##  That was an experience I learned from
but the knowledge was distinct from it.

When I was learning from Swamiji I was a very unhappy person,
depressed, and rather ill physically.  Both my parents died during
that time too.  My experience was almost the opposite of what
Swamiji was telling us.

I will also say that, if the knowledge is clear, and you also got it
that this knowledge of the Self is supposed to give you happiness,
plain old garden variety happiness, nothing beats brahmaGYaanam.h
to instigate major progress toward perfect mental health.  Since
the neuroses and the progress toward healing them and the
resulting health all occur and change within the mayaa, they take time.
So you may meet a disciple of so-an-so (the
teacher you admire) who may be not very admirable him- or
herself.  Just say a prayer for that person, learn what you can from
him or her.

The happiness promised here is plain old garden variety and
it necessitates that people be quite sane.  Happy Divali.

Aikya

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
M>)\^(BD1`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0`
M`@````(``@`!!) &`( "```"````# ````,``# %````"P`/#@`````"`?\/
M`0```&D`````````M3O"P"QW$!JAO @`*RI6PA4````T<B09%_S/$9<[1$53
M5 ``)(4```````"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````$%D=F%I=&$@3&ES= !3
M3510`&%D=F%I=&$M;$!T86UU+F5D=0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510````
M`!X``S !````$P```&%D=F%I=&$M;$!T86UU+F5D=0```P`5# $````#`/X/
M!@```!X``3 !````#P```"=!9'9A:71A($QI<W0G```"`0LP`0```!@```!3
M3510.D%$5D%)5$$M3$!404U5+D5$50`#```Y``````L`0#H!`````@'V#P$`
M```$````````!0P````#```P!@````L`#PX!`````@'_#P$```!S````````
M`+4[PL L=Q :H;P(`"LJ5L(5````-'(D&1?\SQ&7.T1%4U0```2&````````
M at 2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!2=7-H:6ME<V@@2F]S:&D`4TU44 !R=7-H
M:4!L;W1U<RYI:71M+F5R;F5T+FEN```>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X`
M`S !````&@```')U<VAI0&QO='5S+FEI=&TN97)N970N:6X````#`!4,`0``
M``,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2````)U)U<VAI:V5S:"!*;W-H:2<````"`0LP
M`0```!\```!33510.E)54TA)0$Q/5%53+DE)5$TN15).150N24X```,``#D`
M````"P! .@`````"`?8/`0````0````````&8GD!"( '`!@```!)4$TN36EC
M<F]S;V9T($UA:6PN3F]T90`Q" $$@ $`)0```$ES($5X<&5R:65N8V4@=&AE
M(%-A;64 at 87, at 2VYO=VQE9&=E/P#># $%@ ,`#@```,P'"P`)``D`'0`7``8`
M*@$!(( #``X```#,!PL`"0`)`!T`%P`&`"H!`0F `0`A````.40U,D8P040P
M-3-!1# Q,3DW,T0T-#0U-3,U-# P,# `UP8!`Y &`" 2```2````"P`C````
M```#`"8```````L`*0`!`````P`V``````! `#D`P-TBC&/.NP$>`' ``0``
M`"4```!)<R!%>'!E<FEE;F-E('1H92!386UE(&%S($MN;W=L961G93\`````
M`@%Q``$````6`````;O.7$P,K?!2H#H%$="7/41%4U0`````'@`># $````%
M````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!0```!A:6MY84!I>"YN971C;VTN8V]M``,`
M!A"%X? R`P`'$%(2```>``@0`0```&4```!.04U!4U1%4E532$E#2$%-2512
M04%.24-(02Q!4$],3T=)15-&3U)42$E35$]/3$].1U!/4U1&25)35$]&04Q,
M+$A!4%!91$E604Q)159%4EE/3D5&3U)42$]315-!3E-+4DE4``````(!"1 !
M````FQ ``)<0``#<( ``3%I&=;"M=X8W``D#, $"-0#R"V!N9_ Q,#,S`?<!
M\0X``]2)`@!C: K <V5T`M'@<')Q,B '$P* `I$5".8["6\P$D]E,C7^-1-Z
M%)$43Q59$V05 at A/O'Q>_%WT6_Q4O$W]E,3+^.!U*'F$>'Q\I$V0?4AV_GR&/
M(4T at SQ[_(L0Y,B8%#R=Q'Y,G< *"<W1Y;#4'D&@)X'0```/P9&,\=&P*LP^#
M`= #,'-N?&5X$) 'L 6P`, "<RH-"-!S#I #,&%D9&E =&EV92!$`1!A5'5L
M!4!0"L!A"<!AL'!H($8"(2BC,0X`]RFG"B +('()4"^"$ `O at FQW-!RQ$&!P
M*J(J6&+Z81!P9 (@`4 JXRZP+7 ;!1 ","TN$ -A.B!40F\SH%-U8FH%D'1!
M,Z!$871E.BYD-O\NWR_O,/,I,"QP"X .@!8`/RJQ## J5!$`,<\RUU)EXRS0
M$&$@2&4L< 20+F3N-S5?-F\W>S _$#AX`4#)#E0R-#DO,3 at ZP0M0O'DO+B P
M< L1.T5S+F3_'W \/SU/,0] [T'Y,\(S9&4TE7T!53,V`4 IH6_N=RG01&$!
M@&XT( !@"?#]+(!O`. "$"MP-\(LX (`-Q"!*](TL&T+432P($,H.EQ<!>!/
M`2!I8VIE3;!7"X!W!; +,%S331 +<&PN.9!T29 0<'\IT$* /_ +@"L``4!+
M86YK*4 28" KTG `@ 60;*QV; !046!U!0!M45+_`9 `(%'B"X !``(P`<%1
M43\00 YP``!18 S0`9 @+O\1 at E%()X!2`BU01!!2?U./?52?,U%1!8%6/U=/
M6%]LNC1146Q5_UJ_6\4I5,R/#@!9GUY_6[1B("@"D?]?GU&3-4!=3V(/8Q]D
M+U' _SP097)23V;?9^]4S!]P97_O:O]L#VT?4< Y:>]O?W"/WW&5"OD#,"FO
M*S%A`, HX/DLX%)U*3 -D! Q!= LH&DMH&%.>3,L"H4*A4$Z< CQ9PB0!"!+
MT2!TPWD@!"!T;V\@"0`.<)8@>U HX"YZ;$9I$&"1!4!O9B '0&PL.T 005!0
M62SP259!*$Q)(#KB>0(@92YN("X1? )]$&4*A082:X\%$ 5 `'!"@$%D=@MP
M?UP!"K!+<"R@!"!0TW<!5;@N4RY^\'_ !T!S?)!=`_%H"H5\(#2@(( @=5P@
M9WR0*4 I\" `P&M_+.!\("S@`^ I47Q1?#)Y>SM@!<!B!9 M,($'`X%Y_WZ
MAL$08'Z">0!^\(1C`0`_!/!+80F >] #88.@;6W^:2W!`C")\ J%B# #H#2P
MOW[0A:.%8XCS$- %D&D(8/T$(&-Y`'QP3 !^L%#Q"0#O?F(Z\83W+.!G"? $
MD#2@]XXP`(" 84&,X0)@!Y `D/\.<'Q2?K)^@H6R at B*%L8_&KRT at BX!0( >0
M.Y)C<U(@STXP!!&"(A! <'!0,001_W<!AL(%H(N #G *A8?"?4W^4H3!#9 0
M0([A@<"*X5P0WG$*4"C at D/%^\'=Y(! PZ8.@<SIZ;$1\D(6R+)"+FA$.<'6$
MP2!+;DJ '2D09)" BP2&PD5X<*<&<0GP3C @/PJ%22K at _B<%0(;"*P">=X,A
MAC!^H.V&PFN=-P6Q)Z&". &%5%>?%J 90H!"+:!H`X$G]YK1H3V?!D&",0:0
MA#*+0/\0< GP?K"?Q > `C '0(-0]WT0E>"H4F$!@ 20G]U^\/\*A9J A8$L
MD $@4.&>P@/P_XSA@?&&='R0!X"?!J,H3J#_+4!"@% @K)028$'A,Z *A?Y4
MG_-X@ M0H@&A))3P47%W!4!\088B9BU @U. 847_?_)\$ =QA:(*A:=AF;&Q
M)/]^\(6RM *PY89 at CY X`;*$?Z>1AZ&2\A)@"H4!`% @9_9H-+!"@&*R\8;1
MB! M,/\H\+"LM,2A at H54AL&SEK6Q_WQ!FA&1<KD0G]1SD9K"M=C]>FQ7CR&'
MT;7!4B N`(L3_Z IO)*@*8R"B!!ZQK$P$F#O4" !H"D0@&!%!&"0XJAA_Z H
M!" 28'[!B2 I,+JC! "]@&%(NJ&(BK,2 at T%A+-'_A;*($*>!!/"/`4* ?I&$
M@/\'@'PA?-&:A(3V"' J\,BAA[RB?)#"(6]K87E^\/T`P'G"(3KAIY&(`(N0
ME.;]?49-RY!YT'[PAL*5P8\!_P(PQ2'$XG[PI17$XHM ?I'_H"A]1K\0SW%^
MH(<0CO.'$/^4PA P?("L(99B?$$L<(* MRRPSA$YD""=, 5 <\N0G\O">= *
MA7Q!G3!N+2L`_YQQ=#%^\+R2+* `$)G at 3W#YAN$@:HZ1U(.9,<3BIZ+#U- H
M\&%-+FB 8'IL_E.<`0>0?O"RP[^BM,2<:OV($'2'$0. at H8<*A8(BT)GWD4&.
MX;PA=70B?H.9T0= _P:0")!"@#2P`-!0T<XC"H7_H8B($<D!O8)0\8(BXW-1
MH/^'T[RA@#'+P at J%*O Z\<=DL5P05T]7B #$X6M\(/T#8'6X$* :RQ2[*"L`
M4:#?>(&0XGSQ,Q& 84^SX<D!_^3UQV2?[-WF?+,#\+U!AL+_X2.V%*_QEF*%
M at 9YQA( #H+N, at C_P9 )@UV1;860I$/\`$/!'A/J@*8(BO#2R`)[ _^G3R/*J
M\Z1PB4&&L^]TJH?_A@&9,3?1?!3P*: H\3F"$[^&PN3R]H;8,[='U))'S?'_
M`P#-1PJ%ZJ#.)-300H"(,/\[(7_ BG(%$(@0IL&UP8W3_[8`CD)]`JIGZM;M
MDYTPB #]X4!K"< (8*:RIY&)$J$BOWQ!!:"N4L=RC]F@*60*4)^2,LCRC>%Y
MT"V at 8F000'Y(@A/"**E!@>#@TH!A2=^A)* IE;(2X-7A=;,PYU'_?%''(GI6
M]7@#A>+TPK'#(N^2,O/W!Q4#D&Y.$,J1A/;_DE&H'NZB?)"XI'YD_V&AB/]\
M(^CW"4G?<DXPO3!V\K,1_Z*B=P& ,==(X+&J48(BC('_[,7"(4TP3W"X-7BA
MYU![<;QYA<CXDD'480%S3D'0_]_ Y0'=Z30`#D-^\)'AGM'W&L:UX7NQ<X]
MG5#+H7PCW^PO`Y8)\K^1+5!IL'+'$_^^#Z_P?$&N-,(AB0')-+R1]X_9PS#6
M8'.R`J IX#& ,?^6`P%S?^,9M:+YND>_\Y-BW\A!@> :X<+ at D2))HQ BM_?C
M<ZZ3>M9RU^##X-=(M@#WD>#I\> Q2X'@A-##X(.B_WPR at Q"V`9VA2^'6Q$ZA
M at 0#_?48L-*\!%/**X7PR= $NT?\%D."AN2$%D#IQHL70GX0P_]-EB4/GJX;1
M,>R"(G=0=#$_X,&(,.G3JH;MHA7K8F^N9(D at A?![L6%"4'F 8/\J81YC>;%.
ML70`[0!/,#*AW]9@>_">H9R2V:=$@>"V`O<4DNT!>_%OGG&0T7S13Q#_[E*R
MTBZ22<!T`'F at H0")(.A/551]1EF<,D;@UT;_HQ#(8J;2M.-\<(90I[5#<_V1
MX&<*(7OQR(*W\XGQZ/;\=&,(A)PC0?KF-(D1`?C_FF*%@8'QM &.T=9 at A/KP
M*?^%L?CJQW/(`XIQ&/&'P+A1_[RAMO6\)3JQLF)!H8_&#M'_R%".,I8#^J2"
MT;TPR; @@/V3XF^. at 99&.A.)`>-R02K_CP(Z$";&FH"#<H(BG3%55W].%M21
M)_E3-BI#?$((`WG_R5/MH<K2H8=]3=J at LS Z$_>9(L@#J.%K/@,Z$+RA<W'_
M66>&LY03Y5:20?:!*2/'9/IO)+%GD-2:<K"!PN"&<+= <7S1M]!VUX'A`6^$
M]_]\02TU.A"_<> Q6C@(D^3R_SICYS:&P^<`]>BPM/Y!Q"K_E73?<AD!@Y.&
MPB_1KF&"(K]Y<).JRZ&!\2Z3/)I7[:+_H8>TQ )AB7&HX((QA/IL)'_, at 9&U
M5E?7XX7QYS8I0V3_RY#?<C)QSO#"-QW$@A,FI.\[B8D at R&* 85?4`)JQ at -/]
M10DA>FP(M:&(`V*_0IIA_SD#.-3*TL0JKI*/V5U1YE'__I?.)%+EX^$V<87B
MZ?$O,?^[&2H!$=,6LNZC8Y$6LKAB+P98ZT,V<&* ;.91<&C[<Q X`6QG5HC1
MJ#0.T3:0_V$'FK&)1;8`]+"VLNWBCT'_B9/&5J at UQ/&]0.IR-?:AB?_0<#>4
MN2$!<^S%[/'IH=0`_ZQP>>EP$0'![4*I4;?0"@'^9$3!Z@%1=WR7YV)WT RR
M_[D`_D%P%(H[<J*@\U9F0>#_^UF'L:(#+S'=P$WSDJ/%X?_:H0NZ[_$#^>,1
ML''QL8>V?[,PXW'+H<'BS."K8M]0;/YZL<#'(?70%O!&0R/8?]3[[T?6P67)
M0?G$U@'S]B.3_Z20-G#.).'O>?;?,LR@,G/_RQ'C$;^@8A X$7G3.F ;$/U:
MS4TZ0<IP8# E0>F0,5/_NM2LT/_Q&[*N$11R]W!0 at +_@D<S0K) :X(0B6L9$
M,M3_*5/?P1BQ0]1G$.= Z:"N`?_W`N: VR/^0-LAYF'%$(:P_F?)L(!'X4#I
MTX8DI=(;$/_*<!D2IO,J1""PRJ;G0+01_TV0[0"'[)CR'"1)4R*2;N'_R[*W
MT! !#2ENJ1"@RW#L at .]SUO+ #-")8D9ZX!KQH@'OQ2%P$>13,7%U1&#6Y-P!
M_^$!YQ 2TJ[B+S!RP2NV<O+S*C44<G=K3P$<4<= \L#W4%#%`P*A4T at PIJ ]
MT"IQ_U53_V$74.SPH.0`9^74$*#_>9 V at 4D"7%$240(03:("`?_+`H=SY'%B
M$Y[9X*"#X :@[Y41N,7-P.<`;F%C; /_D#<=<:2E23-3.L!>X&II_]3!-Y#L
MQEUC[>+I@;MA`O7_>3H'$YYR\^BETACP!:!:QOY%S$-#U+%3BL,`45Q1_G#_
M)4A5PB?0#,!=% UT[,5NJ?_RP#[0#7)<Y>AA6] 6\*6T'^14T"(BQUUB[,4C
M(V%57$!MGF%HC)%S7N @_GS2,.ZRPZ(4<O `)4G^</^_XS%Q*/(7AL6%$EBE
MTMP4[PX`*.1S<**]5^[BI;2_Y_\H\\0FI;6J%##0"=*"49Q4_[A6IL J`?Y
ML+(;P3\!-4+_3K*#YE\`94'U(_]B^R'J4+\NHC%Q,L7QZ at KBZ%%O94'WHZ$E
M2:73;"L@<<'YXR @_W<00)&*PO3"6T;$-<BSE9"_), G<5" HKVEL4ZS; 8`
M__W1H3'O,6P!>/]Z!U9GZ9*_.F"P\N(;8X**.VHR4Y+"_V.1F9#E8F*S?V N
MT$N#'_/_#Q%0P LVI$.*P&JA8.#X\/U-`78\$3$@7"+Q9LQ"(X1GB2"0DM*C
M1UG\(=)P+CYH#U at V<-?18.&Q\6%J_WKAPQ$",%"R0X"YTI92%M#[V!&(KE,<
MDGR9K0/^0&CT_Y8C^!V)$L U7_#\%8!(((+O)W&)%*K2BL!C4; ;E#^0_T at P
MUT)[(6H%@R&"D'XSH3'_MU,*\2%8E?%7PH,B6]"5$;]K$#QQ4% @PHK1&7 M
M2##Z+>FA*( 83% _ at 8Y!5\/V9%[@8< I7[*#$R,1S%+/JB,((PU3AC!M+922
MP+7[AJ*5E$IQLNG2:Q""<:\@_YN?1;"_XTDD5\*6TM6I"H'_E)(U0:*]@: 4
M0O%E_()>X/_P0E538Y'R7_-F&[' M8VB__E <+*%,$Q09A*<$\ZS(Q%?3"#E
MHL2 at HI%E4$C<LT0W+M V\:*]07Q@`G!]``$:L `#`! 0``````,`$1 `````
J0 `',,"L4B%<SKL!0 `(,,#=(HQCSKL!'@`]``$````!`````````,,2
`
end