mind, the mischief-maker (was Re: LIFE)

[Gummuluru Murthy]

On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Charles A. Hillig wrote:

> At 02:46 PM 10/1/96 -0230, you wrote:
> >On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Charles A. Hillig wrote:
> >
> >>
>         The Silence is NOT  "chained."  IT is ever present.
> >>
> >Yes, the silence is ever present. I agree. But, why is silence not
> >accessible to us then?
>
>    But, isn't this a bit like "begging the question?"  First, you're
> assuming that  "...silence is not accessible to us" and then you're asking
> "So, why isn't it?"
>
>     But suppose there IS no difference between Silence and who you think YOU
> are.   Then the question of "accessibility to it" becomes unimportant since
> it (and ONLY "IT") is the only Reality at all.
>
>
>
> > We all have a sense for the beauty of silence
> >and look forward to be in its noble presence. But we are not able to do
> >it. Why?  I contend the enemy is the mind, which would not let us go into
> >the company of silence. That is why, my feeling is that the mind is the
> >biggest source of the problem.
> >
>      If you argue for your limitations, they're yours.     In order for us
> to pass into a dreamless sleep at night, don't we have to leave behind
> everything (and everyone) that's "near and dear" to us.  We can only,
> seemingly, "go" into this silence with an empty mind, empty hands, empty
> heart.  Everything else must be "left" at the "door."
>
>      The Silence is not "enter-able."  Believing that it is, only
> perpetuates the illusion of do-ership and that it is not fully present here
> and now..
>
> >> >Ten minutes is too long a time for the mind
> >> >to work its by now well-known web of illusion.
> >> >
> >> >The biggest source of all problems we encounter is the Mind, the
> >> >uncontrolled and which roams as it wishes without any leash.
> >>
>         The biggest so-called problem may be to get past the delusion that
> there IS
>  a "separate Mind" that's creating all of this mischief.
>
> >I would be grateful if you expand on this. You seem to be saying that
> >there is no problem at all and the only so-called problem is the delusion
> >that there is a problem. Am I reading you right ?
>
>      Yes.  Maharshi said that the greatest obstacle to enlightenment was to
> get past the illusion that you're not already enlightened.  Bondage is
> illusory.   Right now, the "you-who-you-think-you-are" is only dreaming that
> it's awake.  And a  big part of that dream is that, SOMEDAY,  (if you play
> your cards right), you will, eventually, "awaken" and "become enlightened."
>
> >I consider the mind to be an obstacle because of its wandering nature.
> >
> >While the Atman is ever free and all-encompassing, still the body and the
> >mind give us the individuality that we are forced to accept for the life
> >of the body. It is of paramount importance that the body and the mind
> >are controlled by the Atman so that when we speak, it is the Atman that
> >speaks and when we interact with the rest of the world, the body and the
> >mind obey the commands of the Atman. The body lives in this unreal world
> >and the mind which is the receptacle of the perceptions of the sense-
> >organs reacts to this unral world. The recognition is made of the
> >unreality of the body and the thoughts that the sense organs bring (the
> >mind). Body is a corpse and there is no problem with that. Mind is a
> >stream of thoughts that pass through and the unreality of the thoughts
> >are also recognized. Further, mind is disciplined (or controlled by the
> >Atman or the Self) to the extent that only noble thoughts pass through.
> >Still however, in order for the veil of ignorance to be removed fully,
> >we need to be in a thoughtless state. That is where I see the mind as the
> >mischief-maker.
>
>      There is NO difference betwen the thinker and his thoughts.  It's all
> only One.
>
> >> >Mindworks Ltd (with its Managing Director, the maaya) is a factory which
> >> >creates all sorts of unnecessary and banned (to an advaitin) substances.
> >> >I will even add, it creates only unrequired gadgets and puts hindrance
> >> >at every step of the way.
> >> >
> >> >The sooner we get rid of this factory, the closer we are to remove the
> >> >veil of ignorance.
> >> >
>
>       You don't have to "stop the movie" in order to discover that it's
> really ony a clever  illusion of flickering lights and colors.   The cosmic
> movie will go on as it will.   Recognize, instead, that you are the unbroken
> and seemless screen that lovingly supports (with total detachment) ALL of
> the comedies, melodramas and tragedies that are "projected" onto it without
> judgment or opposition.
>       The "factory" will continue to, seemingly, "do" whatever IT, seemingly,
>  "does."
>       Your discovery that the "lake" that you see in the desert is really only
 a
>  mirage is NOT going to make this "lake" disappear.   But, after you realize
>  that it's not real, you won't be running after it as before.  You may not
>  really, seemingly, awaken FROM the illusion as much as TO the illusion.
>
>
> >Following Sri egodust's very appropriate (in my view) description of the
> >functions of the factory Mindworks Ltd (with maaya as the Managing
> >Director), in order for us to be in a thoughtless state (i.e. in the
> >company of silence), the only way to do this is to close the factory.
> >We can get the factory produce more useful gadgets but as long as the
> >owner/Managing Director is maaya, that cannot be accomplished. Hence,
> >the solution suggested by Sri egodust, with which I concur.
> >
> >
>       Spiritual "progress" is impossible.  There's nothing that  "you" can
>  "do" to, seemingly, get to a place where you already exist as the Absolute
>  SELF.   Believing that there is, however, provides the momentum for you to
>  go out looking for  "The Truth."   However, your very act of seeking only
>  validates your delusion that you are, quintessentially, different from what
>  it is that you are seeking.
>
>       Let go of struggle, do-ership and attainment.  Let go of it all!
>
>            (and then let go of "letting go.")   Only the SELF is present.
>
> >Certainly, we are not running after the lake in a desert anymore. We do
> >not even see the lake. We are not seeking anything. What all is wanted
> >is to be in the company of silence. It is recognized it is within us
> >but is still elusive.
>
>      To desire the "...company of Silence," though,  is to see it as
> different and separate from you.  You don't desire to attain what you
> already are.
>
> >If mind is not the one that is making it difficult, I (the worldly) would
> >like to know what is.
>
>      The nature of the SELF is to be what it is...by pretending to become
> what it isn't.
>
>
>                           With Blessings,
>                                            Chuck Hillig
>

Thanks for clarifying some points for me re the mind.

I would like to come back to the point whether there is a problem with the
mind (my argument) and that there is no problem at all and there is only
a perception that there is a problem (Sri Chuck Hellig's point). I quote
below from Upadesa Sahasri (ch 19 where the text is put as the Self
addressing the mind. The translation quoted is from Upadesa Sahasri,
commentary by Jagadananda, Ramakrishna Math., Madras).

The Self addresses the mind:

"... It is proper for you to remain quiet. You indulge in vain ideas
like 'me' and 'mine'. You have no consciousness of things. I (the Self)
am always contented and have no desires. ..." (verse 2)

"... According to Sruti, one who is by nature beyond the six waves
(hunger, thirst, grief, delusion of the mind, old age and death of the
body) is the Self (Reference is also made to Bhagavad Gita 10.20) ..."
(verse 4)

"... In deep sleep, when the mind is merged, there is no difference left
which delude people. When awoke again, all wrong notions and delusions
start. The cause of all wrong notions is the perception by the mind of
the reality of difference. These wrong notions disappear as soon as one
is free from this perception. ..." (verse 5)

    The root cause for the perception of the reality of difference is the
    mind. That is, the mind sees only the duality. We know it is not
    correct and hence what is perceived by the mind is wrong.

"... Because I know the Truth, I am not deluded by your (mind's) efforts.
I am free from all bondage and change. ..." (verse 6)

"... It is ascertained that everything created by the mind is
non-existent. ..." (verse 7)

"... Having birth and death, you are accepted as non-existent. ..."
(verse 8)

     It is the same Self in deep sleep and in wake-up (and dream) states.
     In the deep-sleep state, the mind being merged, does not cause
     mischief. In the wake-up sate also, it is the same Self, but the
     mind sarts making mischief, because it perceives what it thinks
     is the reality of difference. That wrong notion, I believe, is
     the mischief-making factor of the mind.

     So what need to be done is to keep the mind in the same quiescent
     state as in the deep sleep state. If not, the mind creates the
     world and acts rough-shod. So how can the mind be controlled in the
     awake state ?

     I trust I have quoted the Upadesa Sahasri correctly and not out
     of context.

     I would be most grateful for any clarifications.

     Regards
     Gummuluru Murthy
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     Sarvaagamaanaa maachaarah prathamam parikalpathe !
                                Sage Vyaasa in Maha Bharatha
     For all (incoming) knowledge, discipline is the most fundamental.
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