Fact - Is it an experience or theory ?

[Gummuluru Murthy]

On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, Giri wrote:

> >>If one is of the stature of shankaracharya, yes one can say that this world
> >> is mithya/illusion.     In my opinion one has to have the qualifications
> >> experience.
>
> >  Fact is a fact is a fact whether it comes from Sri Sankaracarya or the
> >  candaala of Maneesha Panchakam.
>
>         Agreed. Fact is the Truth, right ? May a question be asked as to
> whether this is said from experience or from theory ?
>         In the initial stages of the forum, this was raised,
> Statements like
>
> 1. Atman is same as Brahman
> 2. Atman is changeless
>
>         are frequently used here. The first statement contradicts
> statements and experiences of Ramanuja, Madhva etc, while the second
> statement contradicts Nagarjuna etc. Does your experience tally with 1,2
> and thus prove that Ramanuja, Nagarjuna etc were all mistaken or
> statements 1,2 made only because Shankara (or someone else) said so ?
>         Basically, do you see no duality between me, Rama, Ramana, and
> you or do you just believe that there is no duality ?
>
> dhanyavaad.h
>

I believe Sri Giri's question is for all members of the discussion group.
However, as the statement quoted above (fact is ..) is made by me, I
should put my views of this.

Anyone comes to a conclusion on any topic, based on various factors, of
which experience, and theoretical knowledge are the major contributors.
It is very difficult to say how much is the contribution from each.

As for me personally, I do not have any theoretical knowledge of Advaita
philosophy. I am a late entrant to this thinking. I have read very little
of the Advaitic writings. Thus, I am not a theorist. I do not have any
experiences which stand out. Thus, I cannot claim that my statement is
based on experience. That does not mean that the statements I made are
from the top of my head. It is a contribution from my total me, the
total experience.

I have seen the misery of the concept of the reality of the world and
I was drawn naturally into Advaitic mode. Sri Sankaracarya was and is
my guru and he ever exists in me. I invoke him all the time as I wrote
in my Introduction to this forum.

I really do not know whether some of these statements (mine included)
contradict Sri Ramanuja, Madhva or Nagarjuna. But I must say, that I
find support for my statements in the writings of Sri Sankara. I am
heartened by it.

While I was thinking about Sri Giri's query, it occurred to me of a
response given by Sri Ramana Maharshi to one of the interviewers, as
quoted in the Ramanashram letters (I am paraphrasing it here and may
not be entirely correct). When asked that some of Sri Ramana's statements
are in tune with the writings of Sri Sankara, Sri Ramana apparently said
"Yes, I was told it was so.".

How do we say that the planet is going around the Sun ? How do we say
that a falling fruit is because of the gravitational force by the Earth
on the fruit ? The same with the concepts discussed here, in terms of
experience and theory.

As per duality, I do not accept it. As Upadesa sahasri (ch. 19) says,
any mind only sees duality, or the reality of difference. Mind and what
it sees is an illusion.

I do hope that members of the group do not take this posting as too
presumptuous of me.

Regards
Gummuluru Murthy
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Sarvaagamaanaa maachaarah prathamam parikalpathe !
                        Sage Vyaasa in Maha Bharatha
For all (incoming) knowledge, discipline is the most fundamental
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