Time Bound (revisited)

[Mark Hovila]

Sure.  What I am saying is live with the question, the openness, the
inquiry. That is where the real life is.  It is when we want to immediately
take it to the conclusion, which is indeed the "way" of the vast majority
of us, that we are lost.

Yes, I know, we're not really lost, we just think we are.  It's a good
point to remember, but it can be a slippery slope.  Ego can and will use
this to stifle true inquiry.

Mark

----------
> From: Charles A. Hillig <chillig at JETLINK.NET>
> To: Multiple recipients of list ADVAITA-L <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
> Subject: Time Bound (revisited)
> Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 3:49 PM
>
> >>      Maybe we can only really speak of an "is-ness" which transcends
all
> >> duality.  (But, then again, "who's" really "there" to do the
speaking?)
> >>
> >
> >Great question, as long as we remain in the "who."  As soon as we demand
> >the answer, we are lost again.
>
> >Mark
>
>
>      I'm not sure that we can ever really "lose our way."
>      For example, maybe demanding an answer actually IS "our way."
>
>      Maybe we just have to keep on asking our questions
>                                           until we finally run out of
them.
>
>                                          With Blessings,
>
>
>                                        Chuck Hillig

>From  Wed Jul  9 14:18:13 1997
Message-Id: <WED.9.JUL.1997.141813.0700.>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:18:13 -0700
Reply-To: sajdek at onet.pl
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Sajdek <sajdek at ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: The Karmas and our destiny
Comments: To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Venkat Puntambekar wrote:
>
> Namaste to all:
>
> I read in a book that prarabhda karma is
> like a arrow which already left the bow and is in flight. Our lives are just
>  like this
> arrow in flight. The arrow will follow the path it has to follow and will hit
>  the target,
> not necessarily the one one you want. Then how can we say we are the creators
 of
>  our
> destiny. Granted the fact that this life is a result of our previous karmas,
 but
>  I do
> not know when the first karma was created( I am not sure if anyone should
 care).
>
> It is also said that one should not and cannot interfere with destiny ( I was
> told even gods resist). SO how does one answer oneself that karmas can be
 burnt,
>  and
> eventually even the prarabhda karmas will run thier course.
>
> I feel it is important to have this cleared out..
>
> Thanks,
> -venkat
Actually, there is no satisfying reply to this question. Either you come
to the conception of something like "original sin", or you must agree
that any conception of karma, wandering etc., from the absolute point of
view (paramaarthataH), do not denote anything real. Advaitins are in
favour of the latter idea. In this way they do not feel obliged to
account for anything that is a result of avidyaa. Another thing is that
even the conditioned world has some inner logic, so I personally do not
feel satisfied with the answer. I am looking forward to learning from
you a better explanation.
Paul Sajdek

>From  Wed Jul  9 14:22:39 1997
Message-Id: <WED.9.JUL.1997.142239.0700.>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:22:39 -0700
Reply-To: sajdek at onet.pl
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Sajdek <sajdek at ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: The Karmas and our destiny
Comments: To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Vidyasankar Sundaresan wrote:
>
> > SO how does one answer oneself that karmas can be burnt,
> >  and
> > eventually even the prarabhda karmas will run thier course.
> >
> >
> > I feel it is important to have this cleared out..
>
> The logical position of advaita is extremely clear about this. Destiny is
> just the sum total of the fruits of all previous actions. Now, some of
> these karmas have already started coming to fruition (prArabdha) while
> some more karmas are yet to bear fruit (sancita). If actions continue,
> they will also have their fruit in the future (Agamin).
>
> Now, avidyA is the root cause of any karma, just like cloth is a cause of
> a dress. If the cloth is burnt, there is no more dress. Only the ash
> remains, maybe in the form of the dress, to be swept away. Similarly when
> avidyA is removed, the karma is also burnt up, although the external form
> might remain. This is what is described as prArabdha karma running their
> own course.
>
> If you take the position that all future actions are predestined, and
> that one is helpless against such a superhuman force, you might as well
> deny any possibility of attaining jnAna, or else, make jnAna itself just
> an adventitious outcome of favorable karma. But that is never the case.
> To talk about free will and destiny as if either is an absolute, is to
> grant more than is due to these two. Destiny and free will have no
> existence apart from each other. By exercising free will, one brings upon
> a certain destiny, which then offers more opportunities for exercising
> free will, which creates yet more destiny. We can use the same free will
> to acquire jnAna, thereby breaking the cycle of destiny and free will.
> There is a clear way out of the cycle that has been taught from the
> ancient upanishads down to the recent Ramana Maharishi - namely Atma
> vicAra.
>
> Read the yoga vAsishTa - there are answers to many of your questions
> there.
>
> Vidyasankar
But what about the beginning of the chain of karma, which is the most
interesting question here?
Paul S.

>From  Wed Jul  9 09:16:18 1997
Message-Id: <WED.9.JUL.1997.091618.0400.>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:16:18 -0400
Reply-To: chandran at email.econ.ag.gov
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Ram Chandran <chandran at EMAIL.ECON.AG.GOV>
Organization: Economic Research Service
Subject: Re: The Karmas and our destiny
Comments: To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Venkat Puntambekar wrote:
>
> Namaste to all:
>
> I read in a book that prarabhda karma is
> like a arrow which already left the bow and is in flight. Our lives are just
 like this
> arrow in flight. The arrow will follow the path it has to follow and will hit
 the target,
> not necessarily the one one you want. Then how can we say we are the creators
 of our
> destiny. Granted the fact that this life is a result of our previous karmas,
 but I do
> not know when the first karma was created(I am not sure if anyone should
 care).
> It is also said that one should not and cannot interfere with destiny ( I was
> told even gods resist). SO how does one answer oneself that karmas can be
 burnt, and
> eventually even the prarabhda karmas will run thier course.

        Your question is not a simple one. The daily lives of Advaitins follow
the Advaitic Tradition that is consistent to Hindu Scriptures and to the
philosophy established by Sankara. In pure Advaitic philosophy, there is
neither creation, action nor destiny and the question is also an
illusion. The day to day life related questions and answers to those
questions are beyond the scope of  pure Advaitic tautology.  It is
important to understand that Advaita as proposed by Sankara is package
deal! The most important part of Advaita is the establishment of a
linkage between the Hindu Scriptures, the Advaitic tautology and day to
day life.  Scriptures contain an ocean of knowledge and any
interpretation is subject to the perception of the scholars and their
scholarship.  This may explain the disagreements that existed between
religious scholars and philosophers.  Faith and intuition play an
important role in accepting a religion and/or a tradition.
        Human life consists of both material aspects as well as the spiritual
aspects.  On the material aspects of human life the question can be
answered as follows: The archer who shoots the arrow is always faced
with an uncertainty and there is no 100 percent guarantee that the arrow
will hit the aimed target. It is also true when an arrow leaves the bow
the archer has no control over the arrow! The archer is fully
responsible for the Karma and will be rewarded or punished accordingly.
The purpose of Karma theory is to develop discipline and responsibility
for future actions.  The materialistic economic theory comes very close
to the Karma theory on the material aspects of human life.
        The spiritual aspects of human life are very well stated in Karma Yoga
of Bhagavad Gita. Karma Yoga states that spiritual seekers should
conduct their actions without looking for the fruits of their actions.
The purpose of life for the spiritual seeker is to seek unity with the
Divine.  Divinity is anywhere and everywhere and every action is
spontaneous and transfers to inaction.  Such spontaneous actions can be
witnessed when we see the blooming flowers.  In spiritual life, the
actor do not evaluate actions, their causes and effects. The actor
consequently burnt the actions until they become inaction!