Scale of Jnani's

[hbdave]

swamy swarna wrote:

> Om Namh Sivaya. Thanks for the slokas. This is the
> benefit of Satsang, since knowledgeable readers will
> correct us. However, I still have a doubt. Kindly
> clarify.

Sorry to be late, I had to manage a National Students Meet
for about 800 students, and became engrossed in sa.msaara !!!

>
>
> I present you an analogy. Light represents knowledge,
> so let us say Sun is Jnani. A planet is a non-luminous
> body, so we call it Ajnani. Now let us assume that the
> planet is moving closer and closer to the sun. To a
> distant observer,

So the observer is one more Ajnani?

> the planet now appears brighter and
> brighter(by the reflected light) and may look like a
> luminous body. However, till it actually falls into
> the sun and loses its identity, a careful observer
> will be able to differentiate the two objects.

What happens after the first contact of the planets
surface with that of  The Sun?

Actually though such analogy helps somewhat in understanding
the process by which a person becomes a Jnani from being
Ajnani, the actual process is not such a linear progression.  After
the first contact with Sun (I fully agree with your use of Sun as
an analogy for Atman - it is in agreement with RigVeda), there
are doubts, pulling back to samsaara by Maya, etc. Then again after
further enquiry/meditation/help from a Guru another contact may be
established.
Thus the progress is not linear but jerky. In RigVeda this
is aptly described as jumps of a grass-hopper.

>
> Similarly a highly intelligent Sadhaka may appear to
> be a Jnani but without the destruction of the ego he
> doesn't become a luminary.
>

Agreed. But what happen when he - a human being -becomes
a luminary?

>
> Another analogy. Let us think of a man bound by a
> number of ropes. Slowly a rat (Sri Ganesha's vahanam,
> can certainly help the Sadhaka's struggle for freedom
> if He is pleased), starts nibbling at the ropes. As
> the different ropes are cut away, the freedom of the
> person to move his different limbs increases until he
> is almost free, but till the last rope is severed, he
> is still bound.
>

Agreed.

>
> If we equate a Jnani with a Jeevanmukta, then to my
> uninitiated intellectual mind, it still represents a
> binary situation. Almost bright, almost free is not
> the same as luminous, and free. From black to white,
> we are moving. A faint grey is still white tinged with
> a slight blackness. I would call such a person an
> adept, a great Sadhaka.
>

1.  I think we have to understand the role of Prarabdha
    Karma well, because it is in terms of this that the
    still existing sharira of a jiivanamukta is explained.

2.  Is a Jnani same as a Jiivanamukta or not?

I think I will try to demonstate the limitation of the
binary theory in my main posting (no. 13) which I
plan to send out shortly.

>
> Sorry if I have erred in logic. I would like to be
> corrected. And it is a sign of my ego which likes to
> intellectualise without experiencing the union,the
> fusion.
>

The problem is - logic  or our normal day-to-day
analogies can not help us here. Any analogy is
based on Duality and we are trying to describe
something which does not leave anything else!

>
> Thanks again.
>
> Venkateswara Swamy Swarna
>
> --- hbdave <hbd at DDIT.ERNET.IN> wrote:
> >