Question about Varna

[swamy swarna]

Dear Shri Ravi garu,

Your doubts are perfectly valid. There are standard
books like 'Dharma Sindhu' which probably give answers
to such questions. Drinking liquor and eating meat are
probably classified as 'mahapatakas' (great sins) for
a Brahmin. (By the way Brahman is different from
Brahmin, Brahman is used for the Creator, Brahmin to
the one who knows Brahma (Brahma jnani). So, in the
normal course of time, a transgressor is to be
excommunicated. And if he repents and undergoes
prayaschitta (spiritual procedures specified in the
scriptures), he is takne back into the community.

If a person who has been excommunicated (thrown out of
the community) dies, his body does not get the benefit
of Samskaras meant for the particular community from
which he has been banished. But now, due to Kali Yuga,
dharma is weakened and the spiritual practices have
become empty rituals.

And hopefully the Sookshma Sareera in which the astral
body and the mental body of the person who led an
adharmic life during his stay on the earth's plane,
and who are supposed to be hovering near the funeral
place do listen to the mantras and realsie their
mistakes so that in the next birth atleast, they
behave themselves better!

Swamy SV

--- ravi chandrasekhara <vadhula at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> Dear Jaldhar,
>
> Thanks for your input.  Being a Brahman myself, in
> our
> family we often hear comments such as " conduct not
> becoming of a Brahmin".  But as you stated
> caste/varna
> doesnt change with conduct,e.g. there are "bad
> Brahmans".  But this brings up another interesting
> situation.  A late uncle of mine (through marriage)
> underwent all the samskaras for Brahmans but didnt
> perform sandhya-vandana, didnt always wear his
> yagnopaveeta, and consumed meat and liquor.  But
> upon
> his demise, another relative who had his upanayana
> performed his last rights.  His son was ineligible
> to
> do so, as he hadnt undergone his upanayana yet.  So
> my
> question is, do Brahmans who transgress certain
> shastric rules still eligible to undergo samskaras
> etc. e.g. is a beef-eating Brahman allowed to
> undergo
> Brahminic samskaras ?
>
> Pranam, Ravi Chandrasekhara MD
> --- "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM>
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, ravi chandrasekhara wrote:
> >
> > > Dear List Members:
> > >
> > > This is the best summary I could find regarding
> a
> > > dialogue between Yudhisthira and a Yaksha from
> the
> > > Mahabharata:( I discoverd this website of this
> > > gentleman involved with a Hindu Temple in
> > Connecticut
> > > http://www.geocities.com/sheenu06033/index.html)
> > >
> > > I welcome reponses to my question about varna,
> > >
> > > Pranam --  Ravi Chandrasekhara MD
> > >
> > > In fact that question was put to Yudhishtira by
> > the
> > > Yaksha (See my book: Yaksha Prashna, A Hindu
> > Primer,
> > > IND-US, 1984). Listen to the Yaksha and
> > Yudhishtira.
> > >
> > >
> > > rajan kulena vrttena svadhyayena shrutena va
> > >
> > > brahmanyam kenabhavati prabruhyetatsu nishcitam
> > >
> > >
> > > King, how does one become a Brahmin: by birth?
> > >
> > > character? study of the Vedas? education? Tell
> me
> > > precisely.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > shrnu yaksha kulam tata nasvadhyayo nacashrutam
> > >
> > > karanam hi dvijatve ca vrttameva na samshayha
> > >
> > > Listen, Yaksha, it is neither birth nor
> education,
> > nor
> > > even the study
> > >
> > > of the Vedas. Without doubt, it is character
> alone
> > > that marks a Brahmin.
> > >
> >
> > I finally got around to looking at this based on
> an
> > electronic copy of the
> > BORI critical edition of the Mahabharata I have.
> I
> > also found a copy of
> > this episode at sanskrit.gde.to which says at the
> > end it is based on ch.
> > 297 of Prof. Tokunagas' files (apparently based on
> > the BORI edition) and
> > ch. 313 of Pandit Kinjawadekars' edition.  Both
> > sources do not contain the
> > above quoted shlokas.  The nearest they have is
> the
> > following shlokas:
> >
> > yakSha uvAcha
> >
> > The yaksha said:
> >
> > kiM brAhmaNAnAM devatvaM kashcha dharmaH satAmiva
> |
> > kashchaiShAM mAnuSho bhAvaH kimeShAmasatAmiva ||
> >
> > What is the divine nature of the Brahmanas? What
> is
> > their dharma like
> > that of the True?  What is their human nature?
> what
> > is their [adharma] like
> > the False?
> >
> > yudhiShThira uvaacha
> >
> > Yudhisthira said:
> >
> > svAdhyAya eShAM devatvaM tapa eShAM satAmiva
> > maraNaM mAnuSho bhAvaH parivAdoHsatAmiva
> >
> > Svadhyaya is their divine nature, Tapa [is their
> > conduct] like the True,
> > Death is their human nature, contempt [is their
> > vice] like the False.
> >
> > A few things to note here:
> >
> > * the Mahabharata is not a "book" in a unitary
> > sense.  rather it is
> > "history" (itihasa--literally what has been said)
> a
> > collection of
> > traditions.  In the process of transmission
> variants
> > can arise.  A
> > critical edition is a best attempt by scholars to
> > piece together the most
> > likely origanal texts based on comparing and
> > contrasting existing variants
> > and manuscripts.  Thus it is not infallible and
> the
> > fact those shlokas are
> > not there doesn't necessarily mean they are not
> > genuine but it does cast a
> > cloud of suspicion.  If this Shrinivasan fellow is
> > using a variant, he
> > should state his sources and the reasons they are
> to
> > be preferred.
> >
> > * Of course it could also be true that I've read
> the
> > wrong part of the
> > Mahabharata.  it is after all huge, and material
> is
> > sometimes repeated.
> > however I doubt it.  Shrinivasan says it comes
> from
> > Vanaparvan, mine says
> > Aranyakaparvan but that is a synonym.  Shrinivasan
> > says it is a
> > conversation between Yudhisthira and a Yaksha who
> > put the rest of the
> > Pandavas under a spell after they chased a deer.
> My
> > source says the same.
> >
> > * There is no mention of birth anywhere in the
> above
> > shlokas.  There is a
> > mention of character--a Brahmana can be in the
> camp
> > of the True or the
> > False based on his conduct.  But a Brahmana of bad
> > character is still a
> > Brahmana.
> >
> >
> > > Yudhishthira's answer is crisp, clear and
> > unambiguous
> >
> > Given that it seems we don't know exactly what
> > Yudhisthira said, this is
> > hardly true.  what is crisp, clear, and
> unambiguous
> > is ones' caste is
> > based on birth as anyone who has spent even 5
> > minutes in India knows.  So
> > what I'm wondering is why do people like this
> > Shrinivasan persist in
> > trying to dredge up support (on the flimsiest
> basis
> > as we have seen)  for
> > this ridiculous fantasy?  Woe betide the people of
> > Connecticut if such an
> > ignorant person is their priest.
> >
> > --
> > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> > It's a girl! See the pictures -
> http://www.braincells.com/shailaja/
>
>
=== message truncated ===


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