Creation theories (was Re: What is the exactmeaning/significance of this?)

[Sankaran Aniruddhan]

namaste,

> But the actual
> justification for creation being a dream can come from "tattvamasi".For
> since jiva is brahman in the stage of moksha, and brahman is eternally free,
> it follows that jiva can become brahman if and only if his suffering and
> therefore creation were unreal.

The mANDUkya upanishad however says "ayamAtmA brahma"
which is pretty much
the same as "tattvamasi".

I tend to think of creation as Ishvara's "dream" as
opposed to the jIva's
dream, because there seems to be some qualitative
difference between the
external created world and the world "created" in our
dreams (the former
*seems* to be more real for most people). This is of
course just my
feeling.

Aniruddhan

Sruti smRti purANAnAm Alayam karuNAlayam
namAmi bhagavatpAda Sam.karam lokaSam.karam
>From ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG Tue Apr 22 14:11:21 2003
Message-Id: <TUE.22.APR.2003.141121.0000.ADVAITAL at LISTS.ADVAITAVEDANTA.ORG>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:11:21 +0000
Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
        <ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG>
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
        <ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG>
From: kalyan chakravarthy <kalyan_kc at HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Creation theories (was Re: What is the
        exactmeaning/significance of this?)
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Namaskaaram,

>The mANDUkya upanishad however says "ayamAtmA brahma"
>which is pretty much
>the same as "tattvamasi".

There are 2 aspects of this problem.

1.Is ayamAtmA brahma of Ma U the same as tattvamasi?

2.Even if the answer to the above question is yes, there is another
problem.If creation is not real then why should it be similar to a dream
alone? There are other unrealities like the proverbial horn of a hare and a
water in a mirage.

As of now, I dont want to touch upon the second aspect, though it is more
interesting. Coming to the first aspect, it is difficult to say whether
ayamAtmA brahma of Ma U is same as tattvamasi. Because the context is
different. The Ma U is primarily an explanation of the aspects of om. But
there are other places where you find ayamAtmA brahma, like in the Br. U
where it occurs atleast twice. And in each case it provides a better context
for its interpretation along the lines of tattvamasi rather than the one
that occurs in the Ma U.

The second aspect, which as I said is undoubtedly more interesting, will be
touched upon later.

Best Regards
Kalyan






>From: Sankaran Aniruddhan <ani at EE.WASHINGTON.EDU>
>Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
><ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG>
>To: ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG
>Subject: Re: Creation theories (was Re: What is the
>exactmeaning/significance of this?)
>Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 14:42:37 -0700
>
>namaste,
>
> > But the actual
> > justification for creation being a dream can come from "tattvamasi".For
> > since jiva is brahman in the stage of moksha, and brahman is eternally
>free,
> > it follows that jiva can become brahman if and only if his suffering and
> > therefore creation were unreal.
>
>The mANDUkya upanishad however says "ayamAtmA brahma"
>which is pretty much
>the same as "tattvamasi".
>
>I tend to think of creation as Ishvara's "dream" as
>opposed to the jIva's
>dream, because there seems to be some qualitative
>difference between the
>external created world and the world "created" in our
>dreams (the former
>*seems* to be more real for most people). This is of
>course just my
>feeling.
>
>Aniruddhan
>
>Sruti smRti purANAnAm Alayam karuNAlayam
>namAmi bhagavatpAda Sam.karam lokaSam.karam


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