[Advaita-l] Queries to learn and transform

[Jaldhar H. Vyas]

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Kiran B.R. wrote:

> How do you know that "they can never realize it"? What measurements
> did you make on them before you came to this conclusion?
>

Why should one need to make measurements to come to a conclusion?  Anumana
is just as much a pramana as pratyaksha.  By the lack of qualities such as
chetana, viveka, vairagya and other necessary prerequisites to jnana we
can conclude that they cannot realize.  Now I can't guarantee that there
has been no animal jnani ever nor ever will be just as I can't actually
guarantee the world will not end tomorrow.

> You cannot judge a brahmaj~JAni from his actions, for he is the vidvAn
> following this shloka:
>
> saktAH karmaNyavidvAMsO yathA kurvaMti bhArata |
> kuryAdvidvAMstathAsaktaSchikIrShurlOkasaMgraham ||
>

Yes thats true.  When we get to the level of actual jnanis it becomes very
difficult to predict how they are going to behave.  (And that's not even
counting e.g. the avadhutas who deliberately behave in apparently crazy
ways.)

So perhaps it is more fruitful to think about how an ajnani behaves and
try and avoid those type of things.  By process of elimination, only jnana
will remain.

> We humans may just not be having the measuring instrument to measure
> the brahmaj~JAna of a horse, a porcupine, or a snail.
>

Again, that's the wrong way to look at it.  Take pi for instance.  We can
never "measure" it as it is a an infinitely long irrational number.  That
doesn't stop it from being useful in all sorts of calculations does it?

> > When some one claims he has realised the Brahman, how what are his
> > qualities/behaviour?
> >
> >> He is utterly indifferent towards the world of multiplicity not because he
> >> hates it or looks down on it but it is totally meaningless for him.
>
> Sure, but that does not mean he'll be sitting in a cave like a dead
> man or a vegetable thinking of nothing or something "beyond". Even
> "nothing" and "beyond" are meaningless to him. He can be doing karma
> like you and I. Indeed, among workers, He is the shrEShTha. Among
> warriors on the battlefield, He is Krishna!
>
> A better answer to the question as to what are the qualities and
> behaviour of one who has realized brahman are, is: He shall have the
> qualities of Krishna, He shall behave like Krishna!
>

But now you are making the same mistake you admonished me for.  There is
no one set way a jnani behaves.  Some may behave as Krishna, but some may
not.  For instance Rshi Valmiki was so still and inert an anthill grew up
around him.

But I do believe that in all cases, the only motivation for the behavior
will be the experience of Brahman not any external factors.

-- 
Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>