[Advaita-l] Kundalini as a product of not-yet-understood biol ogy?

[Mahesh Ursekar]

Pranams:

Praveenji:
I agree with all you say but I may add that after Realization, the
Jnani will teach only if ordained by the Divine will since the Jnani,
as a person, ceases to exist after that.

Which brings up another interesting question…are the actions of
unrealized souls or mortals as you call them, an act of Divine will or
Individual will? To illustrate the difficulties in this question, let
me take the cue from the Advaita Vedanta Anusandhan Kendra web site
discussions on free will by Jagadguru Shankaracharya Swami
Chandrashekhara Bharati and present the problems as a dialogue. Since,
I am a seeker, I will make the discussion between two disciples rather
than with a Guru and disciple. Maybe some of the more learned persons
could help in clarifying some of the problems that arise in either
viewpoint. Below, disciple DFW believes in Free-Will while DDW (me,
possibly) believes in Divine will:

DFW: Free will is essential for reward and punishment otherwise anyone
would do anything they wish and say "it was God's will, don't blame
me!".
DDW: Ah, but that is not quite a correct viewpoint because, you are
cheating. God's will has been expressed in the various Shrutis (Gita,
Upanishads, Bible and what have you) and if you follow those actions,
you can claim to be doing God's will, otherwise you cannot be claim to
act in Her way.
DFW: Hold on, even my acting contrary to the scriptures is being done
by God, right? So I don't understand you distinguishing some actions
from others.
DDW: True, but even the consequences of the actions against Her will
have been described in the scriptures…they are present for all to see.
DFW: Oh, yes. The Kali Yuga. But, that again is Divine will, so why
blame me?  All your seers have even counted the period of time of this
age and so it indeed is depressing to know that things are only going
to get worse from your Divine will perspective.
DDW: Let me put this another way - Divine Will is your will. What you
want, the Divine will grant and make possible. There is no difference
between your will and the Divine because everything is the Divine. In
my opinion, the Divine is making you move to your deepest desire
however imperceptibly and sometimes even without you realizing it…they
do say "as you think so you become".
DFW: But you are still missing my point - why is God causing people to
behave the way they do in these times? How can you account for the
fact that the world is in such a mess? Why is everyone now immersed in
thinking only of themselves and not the greater good…why is this play
of God or Divine play as you call it so cruel as to cause such wide
spread suffering? Why is God who you claim is all merciful and kind
projecting a world that is just the opposite? Can you just throw the
blanket of Kali Yuga and close the chapter of discussion?

DDW: Can anyone out there help?

Regards, Mahesh


On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 19:56:30 -0800, praveen.r.bhat at exgate.tek.com
<praveen.r.bhat at exgate.tek.com> wrote:
> praNAm-s all,
> 
> Maheshji said:
> > In my opinion, intense Jnana can take you very far indeed. But, on
> > this path, at the point when "everything falls into place" or one
> > achieves Self Realization, it requires a huge leap of
> > intution...logic, shrutis and debates would appear to be quite limited
> > in their usefullness after this.
> 
> Again, "when one achieves self-realization", it may well be as you say. But
> then, thats only for the realized; for others, logic, shruti, debate, etc
> would *still* be the means and one cannot discount their usefulness. Pls
> correct me if a jnAni said otherwise.
> 
> Maheshji said:
> > Silence would be a more appropriate expression of this truth.
> 
> Maybe, maybe not. For, if a jnAni keeps silence, who will teach us mortals,
> unless we ourselves are capable to learn from His silence?
> 
> praveen said:
> >> But, IMHO, if you're following multiple paths as your question seems to
> >> suggest, apart from adding to definite confusion...
> 
> Maheshji said:
> > Which brings me to the above point - who can claim to follow only one
> > path on this arduous journey of self discovery? It seem nigh
> > impossible. Sri Sankara singing "Bhaja Govindam" shows Bhakti, in the
> > same song one of the verses talks of regulation of breath (Raja yoga),
> > his setting up Maths for the welfare of people shows intense karma
> > done with a desire to serve and that he was a Jnani is impossible to
> > overlook. So, to reach this goal, one needs to follow all the paths to
> > some degree to make the journey more easier.
> 
> Agreed. The only problem, if I may call it that, arises when we *mix* paths!
> *Following* was an understated fact on my part.
> 
> jai bajrangabali,
> --praveen
>