[Advaita-l] mithyA from archives

[Amuthan]

namo nArAyaNAya!

dear SrI Ramesh Krishnamurthy,
  i think i've answered your question in my earlier mails (assuming
that i've understood your questions correctly). i'll take one last
shot and leave it at this.

On 11/26/07, Ramesh Krishnamurthy <rkmurthy_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> If there is such a thing as a fundamental particle, it will have
> svarUpa *as a particle* (and not as brahman). This seems to negate the
> shUnya of the mAdhyamika-s (because the particle is no longer
> niHsvabhAva) as well as the mithyA of the advaitins. OTOH, if we say
> that such a particle is not mithyA, then how do we establish
> Atma-brahma-aikya?

the viewpoint that a class of fundamental particles have a svabhAva
independent of our perception is very similar to that of the
aNuvAdin-s who maintain the nityatva of paramANu-s and hence duality
at an ontological level. (btw, i guess you can also bring in
wave-particle duality to make the problem more interesting ;)) the
bottomline is that it doesn't make any sense to look for a proof of
the unreality of any substratum after assuming its reality in the
first place; you assume the reality of the external world, reduce it
to a basic set of particles and then say that this affects the
advitIyatva of brahman. probably you want these particles to suddenly
vanish if at all mithyAtva of jagat is to make any sense?!

On 11/26/07, Ramesh Krishnamurthy <rkmurthy_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> Again, this point seems to imply purely epistemological non-duality.
> As the j~nAnI does not superimpose knowerhood (pramAtRvAdi guNa-s) on
> the Atman, the known world effectively becomes mithyA. It seems to
> reduce advaita into an elaborate idealism.

the mithyAtva of jagat presents itself naturally upon the acquisition
of  Atma-yAthAtmyaj~nAna. in this sense, mithyAtva of jagat is
epistemological. any talk of an ontological reality happens only in
vyavahAra where the external world is taken as real in the first
place. at the ontological level, we say that the source of jagat is
brahman with mAyA as an upAdhi and that this mAyA is a Sakti of
brahman and hence that brahman remains non-dual. this is the best
solution that can be given once the reality of the external world is
accepted. you can include all the fundamental particles or whatever
substratum science discovers within mAyA if you want. it is for the
reason that aj~nAnIs find the external world as real whereas j~nAnIs
don't perceive any such reality that mAyA is classified as
anirvacanIya as against atyantAbhAva. for the purposes of advaita,
what really matters is the knowledge of the satyatva of the
pratyagAtman, not the mithyAtva of jagat.

On 11/26/07, Ramesh Krishnamurthy <rkmurthy_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> The simple question I am asking is this: assuming that fundamental
> particles exist, do they compromise the ontological non-duality of the
> Atman? If not, why not?

no. because pramANa-prameya vyavahAra is possible only because of
avidyA (fill in the blanks!)

vAsudevaH sarvaM,
aparyaptAmRtaH.