[Advaita-l] Pratyavaaya paapam

kuntimaddi sadananda kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Wed Oct 22 11:30:12 CDT 2008

Vidyasankarji - praNams.

I agree with the essence of your statements. I have no intension of getting into debate - but just for sake of clear understanding. 

I feel that ultimately it would depend on the metal frame work of the saadhak or adhikaaritvam.  However I feel there is a gradation in the mental states even for gRishathaas.  

I am sure you agree with me that Yogaarudhatvam is not necessarily a sole property of bhotika sanynaasi nor it is devoid for the antarangika sanyaasi, even he is gruhasthaa. 

Does one guarantee that by taking bhoutika sanyaasam, one will have yogaruudhatvam? Obviously one cannot. In principle, he should take bhoutika sanyaasa only if he is antarangika sanyaasi - otherwise he will be fish out of water, right? 

If gruhasthaa can have yogaarudhatvam, then why he has to take bhoutika sanyaasa? First, can one make a statement that no gRihastaa can have that state of mind? Who are we do dictate what he has to do so that he can fall into our well-regimented pattern of living. I do agree that what is needed is sanyaasa and we are making a declaration that it is difficult for gruhasthaas as long as he has worldly duties. I agree that environment may not be conducive, but if one is really looking for right environment to be conducive to meditate, he will be waiting for ever – he may not find it either by having kaashaaya dress. Important is not to have  kartRitva bhaava - is it not? 

Now let us look at the statements - by doing you will not get any merits but by not doing you will incur sin. How can, not doing, will incur sin if saadhak's mind is not set in the preconceived notions that I have to do those? Is it not abhaavaat bhovotpaatiH that Shankara dismisses? This statement is irrespective of whether the saadhak is gruhasthaa or sanyaasi -since it is fundamental statement on its own. I do not feel this has anything to do with bhoutika sanyaasa vs. antarangika sanyaasa. If one does not have pre-conceived notions or anyone who does not believe in those rituals,  and therefore internally has no conflict of values, then how pratyavaaya paapam can will come to him by not doing them? There are obligatory duties while living in this world – whether he is gRihastaa or sanyaasi – we are not addressing those. We are only concerned about certain rituals if one is trained to do and developed a strong internal mind set that he has to do
 them and others who do not have that internal mind set and have no conflict of values. 

I would welcome you comments on these. 

Hari Om!

--- On Wed, 10/22/08, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Pratyavaaya paapam
> To: "Advaita List" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 7:28 AM
> One important thing must be remembered when quoting Sankara
> bhagavatpAda about performance or non-performance of karmA.
> The context of the discussion is oftentimes a defense of
> complete 
> saMnyAsa vis-a-vis an ancient strict position against it.
> There is a 
> view that karmA can and should be never renounced on the
> path 
> to moksha. There is another view that kAmya karmA,
> particularly 
> ritual actions motivated by specific desires, should be
> given up, 
> but nitya and naimittika karmA-s should not be given up.
> There is 
> a third view, and this is the upanishadic and advaita
> vedAntic view, 
> that all karmA should be given up for one seeking moksha.
> When Sankara bhagavatpAda says that no sin attaches to the
> non-performance of nitya karmA, he is contrasting the
> saMnyAsin
> from the brahmacArin and/or gRhastha. The no-sin position
> applies
> to one who has formally renounced ALL karma, whether he is
> a
> jnAnI or one who is still seeking jnAna. The key point is
> that such
> a person has made a strong commitment to renunciation of
> actions. For the rest of us, who are not ready to walk away
> from
> life in the world as we usually know it, this does not
> apply.
> The other key point to be remembered is that there is a
> path of
> transition from performance of karmA-s to complete
> saMnyAsa.
> Please see gItA, chapter 6 and the bhAshya on it. There is
> a well
> attested path of withdrawal from karmA too - yogArUDhasya
> tasyaiva SamaH kAraNa ucyate ... SanaiS Sanair uparamed
> buddhyA dhRti-gRhItayA. Obviously, a person who has not yet
> completely renounced karmA can still give up some karmA-s
> in
> a gradual fashion. The correct way to do it is under
> guidance from
> a well-qualified guru and it is quite specific to each
> person. It
> cannot be something that one should decide upon a whim.
> Regards,
> Vidyasankar
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