[Advaita-l] Sola Fide (was Re: Sraddha and Chitta-shuddhi)

[Michael Shepherd]

More apologies -- and a protest !

'Myth' as used by the intelligent, who know their Greek culture, has always
meant -- as  does 'purana' from pur, preceding -- those ancient traditional
writings which sustain a society and a culture...Any other usage is a
debased misunderstanding.' Mocdonell's Dictionary gets it right
(Monier-Williams just copies the German original work...); and John Grimes
'Concise Dictionary of Indian Philosophy', which the intelligent use today,
gives a full account of all the Puranas.. Macdonell, by the way, was a pupil
of the great Max Muller and thus well trained ! :)

We've resolved 'idol' I hope -- but as the word goes back to Plato and
refers to a 'form' containing an 'idea', so it has an honourable lineage
referred to any culture..

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Dr.
Yadu Moharir
Sent: 05 April 2009 19:30
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta; hs_raghavendra at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Sola Fide (was Re: Sraddha and Chitta-shuddhi)



Namaste Sri Raghavendra-Ji:
 
Thanks for bringing the subject of Idol into the discussion.
 
Most of the scholars often compromise the meaning for keeping the Western
audience in mind, however, they conveniently forget the tremendous harm that
this has done to our culture.  Another word that I have problem with is
"puraNa", which is often translated as Mythology, where the word is derived
from the root Mythos meaning false.  Thus making our puraaNa as totally
untrue.  The word puraaNa in reality finds its derivation "puraa navam
bhavati" - Where one finds new in the old texts.
 
I believe that this is really anchored in the scholarship to Monier Williams
Dictionary and Macdonells Sanskrit grammar ignoring Panini  and Amarasimha. 
Unfortunately, the saga appears to continues with Professor Michael Witzel
and his loyal supporters from the Indian as well as US Universities who are
just interested in getting recognition !?  This ultimately gets into the
School Text Books in US.  This is nothing more than a "M_W Syndrome".
 
It is gracious of Michael-ji who expressed his apologies for his ancestors. 
 
IMO - The Sanskrit scholars and the moron swami's who have made this as a
business model in US need to be totally exposed.
 
Again, thanks to Sri Jayaraman-ji for opening the subject on shraddha.  My
apologies for diverting from the Advaita-List and will be my last comment in
this thread.

Kind regards,
 
Dr. Yadu

--- On Sat, 4/4/09, Raghavendra Hebbalalu <hs_raghavendra at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Raghavendra Hebbalalu <hs_raghavendra at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Sola Fide (was Re: Sraddha and Chitta-shuddhi)
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Saturday, April 4, 2009, 7:36 PM



namaste,
Since we're on translations - we all know what the word idol means in a
Christian Theological sense. And what does it mean when almost every
sanatAna-dhArmika religious book in English refers to a mUrti of a deity as
an "idol" - (even in Kartik's post)?

When a derogatory word like idol has expanded its meaning to include "icons"
and mUrtayaH, surely, faith can come out of its narrow Christian theology.
(Personally I use the word mUrti or icon, or the word deity itself).

If we feel so concerned about a word and other shades of meaning - we should
stop translating. Instead, use Sanskrit words directly and publish a
glossary at the end of your paper or work. That would become less readable
but more accurate.

However, for those readers untainted by unwanted theological thoughts,
"faith" and "idol" are easily understood. The spirit easily gets across
without getting mired in technicalities. In essence, know your readers.

For example, in Advaita-L, shraddhA and faith would mostly be
interchangeable and so would be idol and mUrti. We know what is being
referred to. However, on an inter-religious list - use of the word idol
could be counter-productive and even blasphemous!

Anyway, back to "shraddhA" - the VC says - satyabuddhyavadhAraNam shAstrasya
guruvAkyasya (cha). This avadhAraNam is essentially mental and intellectual
in nature. If action were implied here, it would have been tadbuddhyA
karmAnuShThAnam or some thing like that.

Now, who can say that a mental attitude does not pervade action? However if
an action does not show certain characteristics, it can be said that the
doer does not have the requisite mental attitude.

In short - faith/shraddhA are for the most part - interchangeable. And most
people understand it to be so. If we feel so concerned (for example: in a
talk on Vedanta to a Christian audience in the US) - we're better off using
the word shraddhA directly.

Regards,
-Raghavendra

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Sundaresan, Vidyasankar (GE Infra, Water)
<vidyasankar.sundaresan at ge.com> wrote:

> From: Sundaresan, Vidyasankar (GE Infra, Water)
<vidyasankar.sundaresan at ge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Sola Fide (was Re: Sraddha and Chitta-shuddhi)
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 7:44 AM
> >It's this hollow hair-splitting that demotes
> Christianity (even
> further) :
> >imagine 'faith' without hope or love.. You ask
> God's pardon : as with
> all
> >grace, it is beyond the nature of God to refuse; you
> receive it; then
> what
> >happens in the next moment ? You are confronted by the
> next required
> >human action -- which calls for human effort or good
> works (which of
> >course are also grace..)..or you reject that grace.
> Where's the
> >difference ? Wikipedia wasn't written by God... ;)
>
> Point well taken, but Kartik's point about translations
> is also
> important.
> Christian theologies from various church denominations have
> different
> opinions about the word faith and its role in human
> salvation. If I am
> asked to talk about vedAnta to an audience in the US, I
> will definitely
> be very careful about what words I use in English and in
> what context.
> And given that communication often happens in the English
> language,
> it is worth the extra effort to reiterate other dimensions
> of the
> Sanskrit
> words too.
>
> Regards,
> Vidyasankar
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