[Advaita-l] shudra

[Anbu sivam2]

Michaelji,
I wish to understand you more clearly when you say: " we pass through all
varna from
sudra to brahmana in a single working day !"

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:54 AM, Michael Shepherd <
michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Gentlemen
>
> Just to record the fact  that I've now purchased Professor Ram Sharan
> Sharma's superb and painstaking 'Sudras in Ancient India' subtitled 'A
> social history of the lower order down to circa AD 600' (revised since the
> original publication in 1958).
>
> I think this should answer all my questions, and perhaps those of others :
> for instance, giving the several references in the RgVeda to the tribes of
> Daasa and Dasyu..
>
> Professor Sharma's conclusion after sifting the evidence is that 'the
> RgVedic society had no recognisable sudra order.' The book follows the
> subsequent fortunes and misfortunes of the 'lower order'.
>
> The conclusion would seem to be that today, we pass through all varna from
> sudra to brahmana in a single working day ! So perhaps we are fortunate to
> live in the kaliyuga after all, as the sages tell us: from the depths, we
> can only rise !
>
> Thank you all for your patience.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Jaldhar
> H. Vyas
> Sent: 20 August 2009 05:54
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] shudra
>
>
>
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, Michael Shepherd wrote:
>
> > I would be happy to clear up this matter of 'shudra' with the help of
> > members here : it is clearly an aspect of advaita, yet there seems to be
> a
> > confusion about the real meaning of the term -- and thus, whether it has
> any
> > relevance in today's society..
> >
> > The confusions seem to be two in particular : first, that varna and jati
> and
> > 'caste' are randomly used in relation to shudra; and second, that by
> > translating it as 'labourer' rather than 'servant' there is a sense of
> > inferiority implied.
> >
>
> A big problem is the varna system as depicted in books bears little
> relation to the system that actually exists in Indian society.  The Shudra
> varna as a sociological category is meaningless.  Shudra castes include
> economically dominant landholders, professionals and artisans as well as
> the
> oppressed and downtrodden.  And this is not new, in fact it has been the
> state of affairs for all of Indias recorded history.  Even in the shastras
> it is not cut and dry.  For instance of the two examples Shankaracharya
> gives of Shudras who were jnanis, one Dharmavyadha was a hunter and
> butcher of meat but the other Vidura was the minister of the Kurus, hardly
> a servile position.
>
> > Yet if the definition of 'servant' and 'service' is applied, it is
> > immediately obvious that one can serve kings, ministers, brahmins,
> > kshatriyas, and anyone else -- paid or unpaid -- with the highest
> > faithfulness, skills, devotion, and knowledge.
> >
> > How then can any spiritual gifts be denied to shudras ? How can shudra be
> > seen as
> > next to dalit in some map of society ?
> >
>
> If Shudra means anything at all it is they are not dvija or twice-born.
> That means they are not entitled to initiation into the study of the
> Vedas.  The problem is that the Upanishads are the basis of Vedanta and
> being part of the Vedas, it would prima facie seem to mean that Shudras
> (and women, and foreigners etc.) are not eligible to study Vedanta and
> achieve moksha.  This view was indeed held by some thinkers and even in
> the Smarta tradition, there are some orders that do not accept non-dvija
> or non-Brahmanas.
>
> But this is not the majority view and Shankaracharya
> explains why.  The function of the karmakanda of the Vedas is to
> produce the desired goal (icchita phala) by means of accumulating
> merit and avoiding sin.  This goal once acquired is enjoyed until
> it becomes exhausted whereupon the cycle has to begin again.  Adhikara or
> eligibility for karma legitimately depends on external factors (along with
> caste they could include, gender, age, wealth, region, level of education,
> etc.) because the body itself is the product of this process of karma.
> However jnana is different.  Brahman is not a thing to be acquired neither
> can it be lost as it is the indwelling essence of all that is.  One who
> posesses qualities such as chetana (awareness), viveka (the ability to
> discriminate between real and non-real,) vairagya (renunciation of
> material things) etc. has the adhikara to know Brahman.  And as it is
> plainly evident that the non-dvija are capable of posessing such
> qualities.
>
> So much for theory but the practical problem still remains.  Without
> access to the Vedas _how_ will non-dvija get the knowledge that leads to
> liberation?  Bhagavan Krishna Dvaipayana who is called Vedavyasa because
> of organizing the Vedas into four, also took the essence of the Vedas and
> composed the Mahabharata (which contains the Bhagavadgita, Sanatasujatiyam
> etc.) and the 18 puranas culminating in the Bhagavata.  By studying these
> (which are therefore collectively known as the fifth veda,) the non-dvija
> can also receive the same spiritual gifts available to the Brahmanas,
> Kshatriyas, and Vaishyas.
>
> --
> Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
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