[Advaita-l] Query on Ishvara in the Yoga darshana

[Dr D Bharadwaj]

Thank you. Its a good doc.
Have dn loaded it.


Regards,
Dr. D. Bharadwaj
drdbharadwaj at gmail.com


On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Sriram Krishnamurthy <
asksriramjobs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> Good link on api
>
>
> http://my.unil.ch/bib/Download.do?id=http://sila.unil.ch:8080/fedora/get/serval:BIB_0CD2C8209250/FULLTEXT.pdf
>
>
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Sriram
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Naresh Cuntoor <nareshpc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Your Sanskrit quote says: sa pUrveShAmapi
> > > guruH. And when you translated it as
> > > 'Ishvara is also said to be the Guru of the ancients'
> > > you had overlooked 'api'. IMO 'api' there is important.......
> > > If left out, the translation would seem to convey,
> > > though not explicitly, that Ishvara is also said to be the Guru of the
> > > ancients, but not anymore.
> > > The author of the quote was talking of the 'continuity'
> > > of the His being Guru, may be to convey that this was not
> > > an subsequently added concept.
> > >
> >
> > To quote the complete sutra in question: sa pUrveShAmapi guruH kAlena
> > anavachChedAt.
> > With this characteristic, Ishvara is said to be the guru at the
> > beginning of creation. The api denotes that he is not just the guru
> > now, but was also at the beginning. This is so because time is
> > unbroken to him (kAlena anavachChedAt).
> >
> > Whether there is an api or not, it makes little difference to the
> > contention of some that the sutras referring to Ishvara are not
> > PAtanjala.
> >
> > On an tangential note, your comment about "api" reminds me of a paper
> > that I saw cited somewhere. It was a paper on the several usages of
> > api.  I have been meaning to look for this paper for sometime now. But
> > searching for just "api" without knowing the title of the paper is
> > challenging. Unsurprisingly, searches for api leads to Application
> > programming interface!
> > If anyone knows about the api paper, please send it or its reference to
> me.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Also, sir, Buddhi is not, stricktly speaking, intellect.
> > > The English word as defined by them, is a part
> > > of manas which is different from Buddhi of calssical Indian Texts.
> Bhddhi
> > is
> > > a well defined concept, described to be a part of the eight fold
> > > manifestation of the prakrti)
> > > There is no equivalent word in English for Buddhi.
> > > If we use the word 'intellect', then we will not be
> > > able to mean what they meant by using Buddhi.
> > >
> >
> > Point taken. Translation does pose limitations. I was using the
> > commonly used translation of buddhi as intellect.
> >
> >
> > -Naresh
> >
> > > drdbharadwaj at gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Naresh Cuntoor <nareshpc at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Per Patanjali's yogasutras, Ishvara is considered a special PuruSha.
> > >> To quote the relevant sutras:
> > >>
> > >> "klesha-karma-vipAkAshaiH aparAmRuShTaH puruSha-visheShaH IshvaraH".
> > >>
> > >> Ishvara is that special PuruSha who is untouched by the five
> > >> afflications, deeds and results accruing (according to deeds and
> > >> vAsanAs).
> > >>
> > >> ... "tasya vAchakaH praNavaH"
> > >> Om is his designator.
> > >>
> > >> Ishvara is also said to be the Guru of the ancients (sa pUrveShAmapi
> > >> guruH ...). He, like other puruShas, is the knower of the intelllect.
> > >> ("buddheH pratisaMvedI puruShaH" - Vyasa).
> > >>
> > >> So, there is no reference to vedantic/paurANic themes of
> sRuShTi-kartA,
> > >> etc.
> > >>
> > >> Some say, however, that these references to Ishvara are a latter
> > >> addition to the yogasutras.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -Naresh
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 4:17 AM, Ramesh Krishnamurthy
> > >> <rkmurthy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > 2009/1/16 Shrinivas Gadkari <sgadkari2001 at yahoo.com>:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> This is assuming one wants to use yoga sutras in an integrated and
> > >> >> constructive manner with gitA, vedanta - take what you feel is
> > >> >> useful and leave out complicated themes like kaivalya  (if it
> > >> >> is taken to mean a final goal in itself).
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> > No, I am not talking about integration with gItA or vedAnta but
> > >> > specifically the position of the classical yoga darshana on Ishvara.
> > >> > By classical yoga darshana, I mean the system represented
> collectively
> > >> > by the yogasUtra-s, the vyAsabhAShya and perhaps the
> tattvavaishAradI
> > >> > of vAchaspati mishra.
> > >> >
> > >> > According to the above system, which of the following are true for
> > >> Ishvara:
> > >> > 1) sAkShI
> > >> > 2) karmaphaladAtA
> > >> > 3) sRShTi kartA
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