[Advaita-l] Query on Ishvara in the Yoga darshana

[Sriram Krishnamurthy]

Hi all,
Good link on api

http://my.unil.ch/bib/Download.do?id=http://sila.unil.ch:8080/fedora/get/serval:BIB_0CD2C8209250/FULLTEXT.pdf

Thanks and Regards,
Sriram




On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Naresh Cuntoor <nareshpc at gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > Your Sanskrit quote says: sa pUrveShAmapi
> > guruH. And when you translated it as
> > 'Ishvara is also said to be the Guru of the ancients'
> > you had overlooked 'api'. IMO 'api' there is important.......
> > If left out, the translation would seem to convey,
> > though not explicitly, that Ishvara is also said to be the Guru of the
> > ancients, but not anymore.
> > The author of the quote was talking of the 'continuity'
> > of the His being Guru, may be to convey that this was not
> > an subsequently added concept.
> >
>
> To quote the complete sutra in question: sa pUrveShAmapi guruH kAlena
> anavachChedAt.
> With this characteristic, Ishvara is said to be the guru at the
> beginning of creation. The api denotes that he is not just the guru
> now, but was also at the beginning. This is so because time is
> unbroken to him (kAlena anavachChedAt).
>
> Whether there is an api or not, it makes little difference to the
> contention of some that the sutras referring to Ishvara are not
> PAtanjala.
>
> On an tangential note, your comment about "api" reminds me of a paper
> that I saw cited somewhere. It was a paper on the several usages of
> api.  I have been meaning to look for this paper for sometime now. But
> searching for just "api" without knowing the title of the paper is
> challenging. Unsurprisingly, searches for api leads to Application
> programming interface!
> If anyone knows about the api paper, please send it or its reference to me.
>
>
>
> >
> > Also, sir, Buddhi is not, stricktly speaking, intellect.
> > The English word as defined by them, is a part
> > of manas which is different from Buddhi of calssical Indian Texts. Bhddhi
> is
> > a well defined concept, described to be a part of the eight fold
> > manifestation of the prakrti)
> > There is no equivalent word in English for Buddhi.
> > If we use the word 'intellect', then we will not be
> > able to mean what they meant by using Buddhi.
> >
>
> Point taken. Translation does pose limitations. I was using the
> commonly used translation of buddhi as intellect.
>
>
> -Naresh
>
> > drdbharadwaj at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Naresh Cuntoor <nareshpc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Per Patanjali's yogasutras, Ishvara is considered a special PuruSha.
> >> To quote the relevant sutras:
> >>
> >> "klesha-karma-vipAkAshaiH aparAmRuShTaH puruSha-visheShaH IshvaraH".
> >>
> >> Ishvara is that special PuruSha who is untouched by the five
> >> afflications, deeds and results accruing (according to deeds and
> >> vAsanAs).
> >>
> >> ... "tasya vAchakaH praNavaH"
> >> Om is his designator.
> >>
> >> Ishvara is also said to be the Guru of the ancients (sa pUrveShAmapi
> >> guruH ...). He, like other puruShas, is the knower of the intelllect.
> >> ("buddheH pratisaMvedI puruShaH" - Vyasa).
> >>
> >> So, there is no reference to vedantic/paurANic themes of sRuShTi-kartA,
> >> etc.
> >>
> >> Some say, however, that these references to Ishvara are a latter
> >> addition to the yogasutras.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Naresh
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 4:17 AM, Ramesh Krishnamurthy
> >> <rkmurthy at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > 2009/1/16 Shrinivas Gadkari <sgadkari2001 at yahoo.com>:
> >> >>
> >> >> This is assuming one wants to use yoga sutras in an integrated and
> >> >> constructive manner with gitA, vedanta - take what you feel is
> >> >> useful and leave out complicated themes like kaivalya  (if it
> >> >> is taken to mean a final goal in itself).
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > No, I am not talking about integration with gItA or vedAnta but
> >> > specifically the position of the classical yoga darshana on Ishvara.
> >> > By classical yoga darshana, I mean the system represented collectively
> >> > by the yogasUtra-s, the vyAsabhAShya and perhaps the tattvavaishAradI
> >> > of vAchaspati mishra.
> >> >
> >> > According to the above system, which of the following are true for
> >> Ishvara:
> >> > 1) sAkShI
> >> > 2) karmaphaladAtA
> >> > 3) sRShTi kartA
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