[Advaita-l] Time

[Michael Shepherd]

Vaidehiji,

I think we agree about time : physical time ceases to exist at the subtle
level, when it becomes a sequence of events or thoughts, in the eternal
present, punctuated by being.. a very restful view !

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of vaidehi
chaitanya
Sent: 30 March 2009 20:27
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Time



hari om

advaita is very clear about the concept of time: it is defined as the
gap between two thoughts (vruttis). see bhagavan ramana maharshi's
works, he is very clear about these aspects.

also in mADUKYA UPANISHAD, THE KARIKA IN VAITATHYA PRAKARANA REFERS TO
TIME AS CHITTA KAALA (PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME) AND DVAYA KAALA (PHYSICAL
TIME). Sri Gouda pada clearly refers to these two types of notions of
time while negating the waking and dream states as nothing but
illusion. indeed, there is no difference between these two states at
all.

hari om
vaidehi chaitanya


On 3/29/09, Mahesh Ursekar <mahesh.ursekar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Pranams Michael!
>
>>> Sankya's 'atomic time-clock' definition that it can only be measured
>>> as 'the duration taken by an atom to traverse its own unit of space.' !
>
> Doesn't the above definition: 'the duration taken by an atom to traverse
its
> own unit of space.' ! presuppose time? It seems to be equivalent to
stating
> that Time is 'the time taken by an atom to traverse, etc"
>
>>> Some regard it as beginningless; immaterial; to be distinguished as
> absolute
>>> and relative; inert; devoid of the guna;
>
> What do you mean when you say 'absolute & relative'?
>
>>> to be seen simply as past, present, and future; subject to destruction;
a
> tattva; and a
>>> constrictor to the individual jiva..as a kosha (kalakosha ?)
>
> Here - "to be seen simply as past, present, and future" cannot be taken as
> an answer because when we ask 'what is time?', it is equivalent to 'what
is
> it that makes things appear as past, present, future?'
>
> I would like to share a quote of some relevance to this knotty problem:
> "What then is time? If no one asks me, I know, if I want to explain it to
> someone who asks, I do not know." - St Augustine
>
> While it may be reasonable to shrug the question saying Advaita doesn't
care
> one way or the other as Jaldhar feels, I think to make a complete theory,
> Advaita should have postulated something about it. If it can accept the
> elements of the world - earth, water, air, fire, AkAsha (which can be
> likened to solid, liquid, gas, energy & Space of modern physics), why not
> Time?
>
> Thanks & Pranams, Mahesh
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 9:02 PM, Dr. Yadu Moharir
<ymoharir at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> In this context I recall a shloka from ViShNuu puraaNa.
>>
>> viShNoH svarupaatparato hi te dvo ruupe pradhaanaM puruShashca vipra |
>> tasaiva te.anyena ghR^ite viyukte ruupaantaraM yad dvija kaalasa.nj~nam
||
>> (viShuu pu. 1.2.24)
>>
>> Meaning - PruSha and prime-prakruti are ViShNuu's two forms. The third
>> form
>> "kaala-sa.j~naka" time designator manifests as a union at the time of
>> creation and which dissolves, becomes separate "viyukta" at the time of
>> pralaya (the destruction of the whole world , at the end of a Kalpa).
>>
>> Obviously the above is based on the saamkhaya doctrine but it highlits
the
>> importance of kaala and it's relevance during living.
>>
>> To me this means that realization of time is an important factor as one
>> struggles through out our life times.  One goes through this creation and
>> dissolution cycle in their careers as well.  The time period between two
>> failures could be a "Kalpa" for that individual.  We often see
>> industrialists who immediately after one unsuccessful attempt try again
>> and
>> again.  The famoous soft Drink brand 7-Up was born only after six
>> unsuccessful attempts.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dr. Yadu
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Sun, 3/29/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Time
>> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 3:26 AM
>>
>>
>> I offer this tentative resolution of this apparent difference of
viewpoint
>> :
>> that atma in its very nature has command of all 'time' and all 'space'
for
>> its fulfilment.
>>
>> That for me is a happy and fruitful way of looking at the matter, and
>> saves
>> fruitless personal considerations of 'my' rebirth etc. !
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
>> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Jaldhar
>> H. Vyas
>> Sent: 29 March 2009 09:10
>> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Time
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Mahesh Ursekar wrote:
>>
>> > Pranams!
>> >
>> > Can anyone tell me how 'Time' is conceived of in Advaita Vedanta? There
>> is
>> > talk of space (AkAsh) as one of the pacha-mAhAbhutas but no mention of
>> Time
>> > anywhere that I know of.
>> >
>>
>> AkAsha is one of those hard to translate words.  Specifically it is the
>> medium of transmission of sound (and is therefore translated as aether in
>> English sometimes.)  Or it can mean space.  In Gujarati for instance, it
>> merely means sky.
>>
>> In vaisheshika darshan, dishA (direction) is one of the 24 gunas posited
>> by that school.  It is more equivalent to the modern understanding of
>> space then akasha imo because direction has the property of extending
>> indefinitely along every point.  kAla or time is another.  After the 14th
>> century, nyAya-vaisheshika became obsolete and was replaced by the
"navya"
>> nyAya of Gangesh Upadhyayas Tattva Chintamani and its commentaries.  In
>> navya nyAya the old scheme is simplified.  According to the kArikAvali
>> (26a)
>>
>> kAlakhAtmadishAM sarvagatatvaM paramaM mahat |
>>
>> "kAla (time), khA (a synonym of AkAsha), Atma(soul), and dishA
(direction)
>> are
>> omnipresent and infinite in dimension"
>>
>> Advaita Vedanta would not agree with that as of the four only Atma is
>> real and therefore omnipresent infinite etc.
>>
>> --
>> Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
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