[Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive

[Michael Shepherd]

Nice one ! Well bowled, sir !

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Suresh
Marur
Sent: 05 November 2009 07:45
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually
supportive



On your last comment in "thought" to remove "thought", I came across a
recent question and answer that were quite intriguing.

Q: Vedanta at the end of the day is still a thought process. So how can it
lead to knowledge as it is but a thought.

The answer was even better:

A: If we were to say that our thoughts are a dream, Vedanta is like the lion
in the dream that when we "see", shakes us out of the dream and launches us
into "waking".

- Suresh

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Michael Shepherd <
michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Dear Shrinivas,
>
> Thank you for that response. It's just those 'labels' of experience thatr
I
> wanted to look at -- particularly the 'dreaming' state.
>
> My 'taste' of the fourth state showed its simplicity : the bodily senses
> were clear and fully available to sense; the mind was clear and fully
> available to think; and all I can say of the 'spirit' was that it seemed
> totally at rest. A perfect and blissful condition all round !
>
> But as you say, our 'daily experience' during the 'waking hours' is a
> mixture of perfect sensing,'dreaming' or clear thought, and continual
> swinging between mental and sensory 'rest' and activity.
>
> I am intrigued by whether we could rename the 'dreaming' state -- whether
> 'day-dreaming' or 'night-dreaming' -- as quite simply the 'thoughtful'
> state. During the day, it's voluntary' during the night, it's involuntary;
> but in the fourth state, it would appear to be at rest and in effect,
> unnecessary.
>
> I guess the answer is, if the presence of atman as witness is held in mind
> at all times, all these questions don't matter !
>
> But I'm just intrigued, technically, as to the power of the 'dreams' of
art
> to use illusion to remove illusion, thorn to remove thorn ! Or by my
> definition above, thought to remove thought, ahamkara to remove ahamkara !
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of
> Shrinivas Gadkari
> Sent: 04 November 2009 06:25
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Subject: [Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive
>
>
>
> Namaste,
>
> Revisiting this thread after several days:
> In our daily experience we are awake, we sleep and we
> see dreams. Now we have three states of consciousness
> "awake state", "dream state" and "sleep state".
>
> Based on my understanding and experience it will be too
> hasty a conclusion to equate:
> "awake state" = what we commonly mean by "awake experience",
> "dream state" = what we commonly mean by "dream experience",
> "sleep state" = what we commonly mean by "sleep experience".
>
> It is true that "dream state" dominates the "dream experience",
> and "sleep state" dominates the "deep sleep experience",
> However, the "awake experience" (based on my understanding)
> is quite complex. Though the "awake state" is easily
> recognized in "awake experience", there are interspersed
> experiences of "dream state" and "sleep state" in
> the "awake experience". Recognizing/ examining this
> phenomenon, in my opinion, forms the foundation for
> study/ exploration/ understanding of the three states
> of consciousness. hari om.
>
> Regards,
> Shrinivas
>
>
>
>
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