[Advaita-l] A Perspective - 4

[Anbu sivam2]

Dear Sunilji,

When I said "Karma is maaya.  Gnaanis are beyond it." I was stating a
profound truth of advaitha.

In dwaitha prapancham we have pasu and pathi and they have work to do.

Pasu does both Kamya and Nishkaamya karma.  As Sadanandaji put it "Niskaama
only means no self-centered desire". I am sure you will have no difficulty
in accepting this fact.

Talking of dwaitha prapancham there are two views.  One sees that I am real,
you are real and He is real.  In other words each one is a separate entity.
In this scheme of things God is powerful and all submit to his authority.
The relationship is like the one between Raja and praja.  In this scheme of
things a jeeva performs karma as destined by his varna and aasrama.  No
violation is tolerated.

The other view is - I am real, all others are God in different forms.  In
this view the identity of you apart and different from all others is an
alienation that has to be overcome.  A person who thinks he is alien does
kaamya karma and the one who has overcome the alienation does nishkaama
karma. Kaamya karma brings its rewards that is enjoyed in newer janmas.  You
can feel alinated and that is your option that has pitfalls.  But if you try
to alienate another from God then you are attacking God, an act considered
asuric and will be liable for severe punishment.

When pathi does the work such as parithraaNaaya sadhunaam, vinaasaaya cha
dhushkrithaam etc. as in the case of Krishna we term it as Nishkaama
karmam.  If you see Him as one like you and me then his work is nishkaama
karmam that is different from a person who does a karma with the fruit of it
in mind.  If you see him as the entire prapancham working to preserve
Himself then you can even term it as kaamya karmam!

So when you see a Gnani as one who has identified himself with God then you
see him as doing nishkaama karmam.

As soon as you use the word God or Easwara (pathi) then pasu as a separate
entity (jeeva) is sine qua non.  From this standpoint you have both dwaitha
and visishtaadvaita philosophies elucidating the role and goal of these two
entities.

In Advaitha we have a slightly different understanding.  A gnaani is seen to
do karma due to praarabhda but as far as he is concerned he has no
attachment with his own body or that of the universe.  They simply do not
exist for him.

This is how I happened to write earlier as "(c) Therefore a person does a
karma 'impelled' by his ahamkaara (shall we say that this is destined!).



On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 2:31 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Anbuji,
>
> It happened exactly as I feared. I said "This is to say in short. A guru
> may elaborate this  in an hour-long or a day-long lecture."  I should have
> elaborated what I said. A small attempt follows:
>
> Look at this way. A jnani, the jivanmukta, who sees through the veil of
> Maya, who sees "Sarvam khalvidam Brahma" too has to work while living in
> this world like Lord Krishna too performed work. What do you think the
> attitude to the work thay have or had ? I was referring to that attitude. A
> true Niskaama karmi has and must have that attitude. I call this type of
> person only as  the Niskaama karmi. Are you calling  all the work done by
> everybody all the time as niskaama karma?  When a person has the right
> attitude towards doing Niskaama karma his behaviour pattern changes entirely
> even though it might some take time for fachieving that.  A whole lot of
> things change with Samadristi. When Lord Buddha was accused by a woman of
> molesting her he smiled and felt pity for her. Can you smile when people
> accuse you falsely?  If you give  some examples of the niskaama karma, which
> according to you are being done by everybody all the time, we can analyse
> them
>  here and now. Nice to know from you that everybody in the world had
> overcome his or her personal desires.
>
> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya
>
>
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 4
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 8:58 PM
>
> Quote: "When do we do Niskaama karma?"
>
> We all do it all the time!  Though unconsciously.  We do it because of
> love!!
>
> 'Aathmanasthu kaamaaya sarvam priyam bhavathi' says the Veda.  This
> AATHMAKAAMAM is so very natural!
>
> So tell me do people really do nishkaama karmam on the basis of
> samadrishti?
>
> Karma is maaya.  Gnaanis are beyond it.  This is Vedantham.
>
> Aagamists keep karma and maayai separate and apart.
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Ambuji,
> >
> > Yes, you got the point. When do we do Niskaama karma? When we have the
> > Samadrishti we think that other's interest is as important as mine. Here
> the
> > Samadrishti and love are synonymous. Lord Krishna said in the Uttara Gita
> > "Sarvatra Samadarshinaam". It means a Samadarshi can  can see God
> > everywhere, which itself is the Brahmajnana.
> >
> > As regards the sequence of logic I would say that it is a fuzzy logic.
> When
> > you do Nishkaama work you have the Samadrishti and when you have
> Samadrishti
> > you do Nishkaama work. This is to say in short. A gurur may elaborate
> this
> > in an hour-long or a day-long lecture.
> >
> > Bande Krishnam Jagadgurum.
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 4
> > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 4:29 AM
> >
> > Nishkaama karma is not necessarily a karma dedicated to the lord.  Any
> > karma
> > done for the benefit of someone else is nishkaama karma.  Therefore the
> > basis of nishkaama karma is LOVE.
> >
> > THE ROOT OF LOVE IS AATHMAKAAMAM.  This constantly happens in everyone
> > unconciously.
> >
> > If one does not have the love no vairagya can enable the person to
> perform
> > nishkaama karma.    You have to check on the sequence of the logic of
> your
> > argument.
> >
> > GNANA is the conscious knowledge of 'who am I', the realization that one
> is
> > Sat-Chit-Aananda.  This cannot be attained without the help of the Guru.
> >
> > Dwaithis do not believe in the greatness of the Guru.  For advaitins the
> > Guru is supreme for he alone brings the release.  Even God has to come to
> > him in the form of the Guru to be of ultimate use to him.  Such is the
> > greatness of the Guru.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> > sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Anbuji,
> > >
> > > (f)
> > > The highest jnana is oneness with the Lord. No jnana is available
> without
> > > the grace of God. Only in our Ahamkar we think that we can acquire
> Jnana.
> > My
> > > personal belief is that once one achieves the vairagya, which is so
> > > necessary for being able to perform Niskaama karma, one does not have
> to
> > > look back.God will give or arrange to give  the jana that the niskaama
> > karmi
> > > is no different from Him. Once a person gets the jnana by His grace
> then
> > he
> > > may leave the separateness on his or her Videhamukti or may not part
> with
> > > the deha till a futuredate willingly as Hanuman is said to have done.
> > >
> > > g)
> > > Yes the Lord will help. Guru may come in  diferent form. Did not
> > Dattatreya
> > > have 24 gurus each so different from the other.
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 4
> > > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 3:23 PM
> > >
> > > Sunilji,
> > >
> > > (a) All karmas, irrespective of the fact it is kaamya karma or
> otherwise,
> > > bear fruit.  If they don't bear fruit then karmas would be meaningless.
> > >
> > > (b) No karma is possible without 'ahamkaaram' the causality that impels
> > one
> > > to do.
> > >
> > > (c) Therefore a person does a karma 'impelled' by his ahamkaara (shall
> we
> > > say that this is destined!).  He covets the fruit for himself or he
> > > dedicates it to Eawara - this is his option.
> > >
> > > (d) A person who covets the fruit has to come to enjoy it.  This is the
> > > cause of janma.  A person who does not covet has no reason to be born.
> > >
> > > (e) Easwara who is the karmaphala dhaatha would have no reason to cause
> > the
> > > birth of a jeeva if he had dedicated all the fruits of his karmas to
> > > Easwara.  But would that be a true release?
> > >
> > > (f) A true release is freedom from ignorance.  A jeeva who has
> dedicated
> > > the
> > > fruits of his karma out of his love for Easwara is still ignorant.  It
> is
> > > not logical to say that a person desiring the knowledge of the Self
> would
> > > then go about performing karma and dedicateing its fruit to Easwara.
> > > Actually
> > > a person's desire for knowledge arises from his realization that all
> > karmas
> > > are vain ultimately.
> > >
> > > (g) This is where the point made in (a) comes to play.  Nishkaama karma
> > > bears its fruit to the jeeva who performed it by way of his acquiring a
> > > Guru.  Easwara himself comes to him in the form of a Guru and teaches
> him
> > > the knowledge of the Self.  Aachaaryavaan PurushO Veda.  The jeeva then
> > > knows who he is and gets released.
> > >
> > > Krishna was the Guru and the Gopis were his sishyas and they learnt
> their
> > > Oneness with Him through his leelas.  This shows that the teaching
> comes
> > in
> > > different forms and ways from a Guru who himself dons various forms.
> > >  Arunachala mountain was Bhagavan Ramana's Guru.  He can even be
> > formless.
> > >
> > > This is the scheme of things with regard to Nishkaama karma.
> > >
> > > This may perhaps answer your question:  "After doing Niaskaama karma
> has
> > he
> > > to worry if he would have the fate of Trishanku or will he fall to the
> > ways
> > > full of desire?
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> > > sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sadanandaji,
> > > >
> > > > Namaste,
> > > >
> > > > Do you think a man would do niskaama karma without pure mind and
> > without
> > > a
> > > > longing for moksha, whether directly or indirectly. I am talking of
> > > doing
> > > > niskaama karma day in and day out. and not what one might do once in
> a
> > > way.
> > > >
> > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya
> > > >
> > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 4
> > > > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > > > Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 7:31 AM
> > > >
> > > > Sunilji - PraNAms
> > > >
> > > > Yes If Krishna finds that the yogi has a pure mind and is longing for
> > > > moksha, then either he will make sure that the yogi will get proper
> > > teacher
> > > > or he himslef will comedown and teach.
> > > >
> > > > When the student is ready for knowlede and want to have that
> knowledge,
> > > he
> > > > wlll find the appropriate teacher- that is the law.
> > > >
> > > > Hari Om!
> > > > Sadananda
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> > sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > dedicated Niskaama karma yogi dedeicates the karma phal to
> > > > > Lord Krishna will Lord Krishna ever abandon him? After doing
> > > > > Niaskaama karma has he to worry if he would have the fate of
> > > > > Trishanku or will he fall to the ways full of desire? Would
> > > > > Lord Krishna not come to his rescue, in whatever form, to
> > > > > give him the ultimate knowledge?
> > > > >
> > > > >
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