[Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive

[Michael Shepherd]

Sunil

I would agree that all this is taken care of by the guru-shishya parampara :

A young sudra presents himself to the guru and says 'Please, I want to know
more of Brahman'.. or 'What is that, which being known, all things are known
?'

And the guru takes stock of him, and probably says something like 'You must
fulfil your duties as a sudra; but if you wish to know more, then you must
rise early and study late at night, and do this, and this, and this...'

And then the guru sees how his student gets on..

As you have all said, 'the exception proves the rule' -- which is a very
profound statement !

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Sunil
Bhattacharjya
Sent: 26 October 2009 00:21
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping,as mutually
supportive



Dear friends,

It is well known that the The Upanayana or Maunji is a Sankshkara, which
entitles the three higher varnas to their scriptural studies. There may be
some rare exceptions like the case of Satyakama but let us kep it aside for
now. The Vedas have to be taught to the initiated students only after a lot
of background preparations like the teachings of the Vedangas before a
student can really be allowed to learn the Vedas, so that they would recite
the mantras properly and would also derive the right meaning. The
Mahabharata even exhorts one to read the puranas and the epics before
studying the Vedas.That is why Manu had prescribed severe deterrent
punishment if any Shudra wants to learn the veda steaithily.

However the Shukla Yajur Veda tells us that the Shudras can be told the
sacred Mantras and Sri Sureshvaracharya, one of the greatest authorities on
Yajur Veda very well knew that. In view of this there does not appear to be
any restrictions on the intiation of the Shudras to Sannyasha. Thus the
Shudra initiate to Sannyasha can be given the knowledge of the Veda and the
Vedanta by the guru, whoever he is. That may also be the reason why the
Shringeri Math, which was looked
after by Sri Sureashwaracharya,  was specifically meant for the Yajur
Veda. I am not surprised if a past mathadhipati of the Sringeri Math
initiated  non-dvija to Sannyasha.

In view of the Dwarka Math and the Kanchi Kamakoti Math claiming association
with Sri Sureshvaracharya  it appears to me that he could have helped the
Mathaadhipati of the Dwarka Math and also took the young initiate in the
Kanchi Kamakoti Math under his wings. Our divine parents only know what is
the truth.

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya


--- On Sun, 10/25/09, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at hotmail.com>
wrote:

From: Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually
supportive
To: "Advaita List" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 7:01 AM


>
> Quote: "...Whether a non-brAhmaNa can become a saMnyAsin..."
>
> My answer is, there is no scriptural sanction for non-brahmin to don ochre
> robe for such permission would have then given a valid reason as to their

Sorry, that is where you are dead wrong. That there is scriptural sanction
for
all dvija-s to enter the traditional saMnyAsASrama is affirmed by sureSvara
in
his vArttika on the bRhadAraNyaka. As you know, dvija includes all those who
have the upanayana saMskAra.

> purushartha.  However non-Brahmins set up Mutts and become inmates most of
> them aagama based rarely Vedantic.  They are as good as buddhist sanghams

There are only four purushArthas for all human beings. Of these, moksha is
no
exclusive property of any varNa. What do you mean by vedAntic purushArthas
in the plural? Or are you redefining the word purushArtha?


> Vedaantic purushaarthas are clearly valid only for the Brahmins and who
can
> deny that it has scriptural sanction.  Others have other purusharthas and
> that is how their guna-karmas are divined.
>
> Aren't we going back in circle again and again?

No, we are each staying exactly where we are.

Vidyasankar
                          
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