[Advaita-l] Bh.Gita verse 18.73 - Was Arjuna an 'aparoksha Jnani'? - Part 4

[Jaldhar H. Vyas]

On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Venkatesh Murthy wrote:

>> It seems that by sannyasa we mean two different things.  I'm talking about
>> renunciation of all limited, material things.  You are talking about kesari
>> clothes, danda, kamandalu etc.
>>
>
> Sanyasa is not staying with wife at  home and saying I am sanyasi. If
> this is the definition it is wrong.

I agree but who is making such a definition?  I said "renunciation of all 
limited, material things."

> Sanyasi must separate from wife
> and family members. if he is Brahmachari he must separate from
> parents. he performs his Sraddha. his Purvashrama person is dead.
> there is  particular sanyasa ceremony. he must follow all rules and
> regulations of sanyasa. if you say this is not sanyasa we should
> laugh.
>

Please.  If you are going to persist in this argument stop attacking straw 
men and address the points I am actually making.

>>> But non dvijas cannot be sanyasis in Sankara Matha.
>>

True.  Nothing I have written should be construed as meaning that Mathas, 
akhadas or other institutions do not have the right to restrict their 
membership to whoever they like.  But note, "sanyasis in Shankara Mathas" 
is a subset of sanyasis.  In fact it is a subset of Advaitin sanyasis. 
You have completely ignored the actual historical evidence that I and 
others have shown that there have in fact been non-dvija sanyasis in the 
Advaita tradition including with the blessings of acharyas.

> Sudras and others below them cannot be sanyasis. No sanyasa means no moksha.

Yes or no question: was Shankaracharya in error for calling Gargi 
Vachaknavi, Vidura, and Dharmavyadha jnanis?

If you agree they were jnanis, how do propose this happened without 
sannyasa? ("renunciation of all limited, material things.)

Can one be a jnani without mukti?  How?

-- 
Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>