[Advaita-l] True or False

Shyam shyam_md at yahoo.com
Tue Dec 7 00:24:05 CST 2010

This real sat and unreal asat you define and categorize - is it from the viewpoint of Reality or Unreality?
In other words :

is it the Real sat that says this is Me sat and "that Not-me" is Unreal asat 
is it the unReal asat that says this is Me asat and "that Not-me" is Sat

Hari OM

On Dec 6, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:

> *Sri Anand:*  "It is important to realize that Jiva and Ishvara can only be
> the same once
> they shed their upAdhis or attributes. Else, it is not possible to claim the
> unity of the two. That is, Ishvara as Ishvara is not the same as Jiva as
> Jiva, but Ishvara as the nirvisheSha nirguNa nirAkAra niravayava nirupAdhika
> Brahman is the same as Jiva as nivisheSha nirguNa nirAkAra niravayava
> nirupAdhika Brahman. The Ishvara, considered with all His divine glories,
> cannot by any means be the same as the mere mortal Jiva. Ishvara is the King
> while the Jiva is a mere soldier. There is an apparent contradiction in
> equating the two, which goes away if you drop all the attributes, qualities,
> glories of Ishvara and those of the Jiva. The Sun can never be the same as
> the puny glow-worm, but both considered as a *shining-object* are the same.
> The VivekachUDAmaNi brings this out beautifully"
> *Half truth. What about abheda bhakti where a jnani identifies Himself with
> His Lord but knows the visEshas also? The disciple in Vivekachudamani says
> "I am Vishnu", "I was Manu" etc. after realization.  I dont know if Sankara
> wrote Vivekachudamani but concede that it is written by one who was in the
> line. *
> **
> *Sri Vidyasankar
> *I don't know whether one should feel honored or cornered, in being singled
> out (or tripled out)  like this.
> *On a lighter vein, when you know from Sankara's sahasranama bhashya that Ka
> means Brahma, Isa means Siva and Va means Vishnu and Kesava, the curly
> haired one, is the controller of Brahma, Vishnu and Siva, then you dont feel
> tripled out. You dont even feel singled out because there is no outside nor
> insidefor you. *
> Since you want pithy sound-bite true or false answers, let me restate your
> statements.
> brahman is sat - True.
> *On a lighter vein again, good for you brahman. keep it up!*
> viSesha is sat - False.
> *does isvara know the existence of viSesha?*
> jIva, jagat and ISvara are sat - Neither True nor False.
> *Isvara has the same level of reality as jagat?  *
> **
> *Sri Devanathan, you have Sri Subrahmanian and Sri Vidyasankar saying that
> Isvara has a level of reality lower than Brahman or worse a level of reality
> same as jagat. Even opponents dont attribute such positions to Sankara. I am
> keen to hear what you think is the true representation of Sankara sampradaya
> according to traditional scholars. After you write, it will be clear if you
> are Sri Devanathan or Sri Simhanathan! *
> **
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