[Advaita-l] The Jnani's feeling of physical pain

Praveen R. Bhat bhatpraveen at gmail.com
Sat Sep 25 00:22:02 CDT 2010

Hari OM, Bhaskar ji,

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 4:52 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
>>  You might have observed prabhuji, jnAni's prArabdha is not only
> restricted ONLY to the continuation of his body after the dawn of jnAna,
> but it has its own influence on jnAni's mind as well, due to his/her
> prArabdha sometimes, as against his Atma jnAna, he may get angry, he may
> be sad sometime, but after getting these rAgAdi feelings in his mind,

Of course, I meant dehAdi when I said body... and when prArabdha
affects it, it may generate whatever feelings its due to generate, but
the j~nAni abiding in brahmabhAva may not have
anything to do with it. This is not the same as saying that aj~nAnis
have superimposed those rAgAdi on the j~nAni.

> immediately he takes the help of his achieved jnAna & tries to subdue
> it...

This is what I have trouble understanding. The subduing of it need not
be an active involvement the way this statement makes it appear. Its
the same prArabdha that subdues it. The forest fires
need not necessarily spread, it may just be a spark that dies off on its own.

And this suppression time again depends on his prArabdha janita
> dehendriya-s...

Which really means its not really with active participation, doesn't it?

So, according to some perception, even jnAni gets the whip
> of his prArabdha karma & uses jnAna as against it & subdue it over a
> period of time.

I don't seem to understand *uses* j~nAna, but it gets subdued based on
prArabdha sounds well, because whatever level of citta shuddhi was
achieved prior to j~nAna with active involvement, the vestige
remaining vAsanas would drop on their own in time, without active

But what happens between the interval (i.e.after getting
> the feeling and before subduing the same) is not in his hand, coz. during
> that time he will be completely under the influence of this rAgAdi
> vAsana-s which is the result of his prArabdha!!

Again, what happens getting the feeling and before subduing it is the
same prArabdha that subdues it too.

> That the body has prArabdha and not AtmA/ j~nAni, as well as, the body is
> superimposed on the AtmA/ j~nAni are equally true in case of j~nAni or
> a~jnAni.
>>  Yes, that is the reason why attributing BMI to Atma even after jnAna is
> something alien to advaita siddhAnta.

But saying that the BMI which was earlier associated with prArabdha,
continues to have prArabdha does not at all mean that BMI is
attributed to Atma. And if it is a superimposition by aj~nAnis
on the j~nAni, then it was so earlier to rise of j~nAna too. Why
should this be a differentiating factor at all? What aj~nAnis see in a
jivanmukta BMI wouldn't have changed of any volition of the
ajnAnis. It cannot at all be a differentiating factor for the BMI that
existed earlier and exists now. Nor has what made the BMI live on
prior to j~nAna changed post j~nAna per se. The only thing
that has changed, in my humble understanding, is that the false claim
on BMI's doership by the mithyAtma.

>>  IMHO, nothing special...if jnAni's body is something special then we
> would have preserved it by all possible means!! is it not:-))

It is indeed something special for aj~nAnis. It is an instrument that
facilitated the fructification of j~nAna. And so, traditionally, we
worship the samAdhi of j~nAnis, don't we?

>>  it is shraddha of ajnAni's, who, with their limited conditioned mind
> which cannot go/think beyond jnAni's body coz. this ajnAni thinks that he
> is embodied one!!...And you would agree with me that when we are
> worshipping the jnAni-s in their physical form, it is implicitly
> understood that we are not offering our pooja ONLY to their physical body
> to make the jnAni-s body a special attraction over the advaya tattva :-))

But that we do to all worship, how else can offerings be made without
a channel? :)

--Praveen R. Bhat
/* Through what should one know That owing to which all this is known!
[Br.Up. 4.5.15] */

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