[Advaita-l] Holenarsipur Swamiji's remarks and why even Avidya is not necessary for Advaita

[V Subrahmanian]

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Kalyan K <kalyankc.81 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Sri Subramanian,
>
>
> >>On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at
> gmail.com <http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >>wrote:
>
> >>* Namaste*>>**>>* There is a third way also. Adi Sankara has sanctioned
> Sagunopasana in*>>* some places. We can start with Sagunopasana and move to
> Nirgunopasana*>>* keeping Mayavada away.*>>**
> >The above has no basis in the shAstram.  'Moving' to Nirgunopasana is
> >impossible without negating the guNas earlier meditated upon.  This
> >negation is not achieved without resorting to mAyA/mithyAtva.  Adi
> >Shankara's recommending saguNopasana is not at the cost of jettisoning
> >mithyAtvanishchayaH of the guNa-s/saguNabrahman.
>
>
> I do not exactly understand what you are suggesting above, but I think it
> would be incorrect to say that saguNopAsana does not lead to moksha.


I am not suggesting that saguNopAsana does not lead to mokSha.  I am aware
of the scriptural/Advaitic stand that saguNopAsana, through the method of
krama mukti, does lead to moksha.  But it is crucial to remember that even
in this krama the final mukti/moksha is had ONLY through nirguNa brahma
vidyA (in brahmaloka).  All I am saying in the above reply to Sri Venkatesh
is about the 'movement' from saguNa upAsana (consisting of karma yoga and
upasana) to nirguNa brahmavichAra IN THIS LIFE ITSELF is not without the
concept of mAyA which is essential for the transition from saguNa to
nirguNa.


> I also feel that while the concepts of mAya etc. are definitely necessary
> to explain advaita (from a logical point of view), the necessity of these
> concepts for a sAdhaka is debatable.
>

I think you will have to go through the recent exchanges consisting of a
number of quotes from Shankara's bhashyam to understand the Advaita
prakriya.  Put in simple terms: Advaita as taught by Shankara cannot be
taught by anyone/practiced by anyone without the concepts of
mAyA/avidya/ajnana/moha/mithyatva, etc. in place.

On your observation:  //the necessity of these concepts for a sAdhaka is
debatable.// let me mention that for a saadhaka of the non-advaitic schools
these concepts may not be necessary since for them moksha is not advaitic;
there is a replica of samsara/duality/dependence in moksha in their
schools.  Hence the avoidability of these concepts could be possible/valid
in their systems.

subrahmanian.v



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