[Advaita-l] Holenarsipur Swamiji's remarks and why even Avidya is not necessary for Advaita
vmurthy36 at gmail.com
Sat Jan 28 21:11:38 CST 2012
Namaste Sri Kalyan
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Kalyan K <kalyankc.81 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Sri Venkatesh,
> You say that my knowledge is incomplete, but how is it incomplete? Isn't it
> a matter of common perception that the world exists and the plurality is
> seen everywhere? If the world is "as real as brahman", then doesn't it
> contradict the saying of the Sruti that sarvam khalvidam brahma?
What is 'real'? This is a difficult question. If you say a real thing
must be there for ever it is not correct. A thing like a pot has the
base Brahman. Even if pot is destroyed the base Brahman is not
destroyed. If you call the pot is not real it is not correct. It is a
reflection of the real Brahman only.
Like this every object in the world is a reflection of Brahman.
Because it is coming from Brahman it is real. The multiplicity of the
world is coming from only One Brahman. If you see only the
multiplicity your knowledge is incomplete. It is not wrong.
There are two very important Brahma Sutras. First is Lokavattu
Leelakaivalyam 2-1-33. Brahman has created the world as a Leela. It is
His pastime. The second important sutra is Sankalpadeva Tu Tat Sruteh
4-4-8. It is true Brahman has created the world as His Pastime. But
how did he create it? Just by a Sankalpa. He simply thinks 'I will
create the world like this' and it has happened exactly like the
thought. It means the World is existing in Brahman's thought.
When you see a Pot it is not only a Pot but a Pot created in Brahman's
thought. How can you say the Pot is not real? It is coming from
Brahman. What you see as Multiplicity of the World is in Brahman's
thought. It is not false like a Fantasy because Brahman's thought is
not Fantasy. He is the only Reality and he has this thought. His
thought is also real like Him. His thought is not different from Him.
But our knowledge of this thought is not there. We are seeing only
external objects. This Jnana is incomplete. We have realize by
Sagunopasana all this World is His thought. Then our Jnana will be
Now you can read the above and tell me Where is Maya? It is not necessary.
> Isn't it a matter of everyday experience that people suffer from various
> misfortunes? If their suffering is "as real as brahman" then how can you
> say that everything is brahman?
This suffering is resulting from incomplete Jnana. When a man has
known his suffering is in the thought of Brahman and he is the same
Brahman he will not feel the suffering. It is all part of His Leela.
> You say that it is "reflections" that are suffering (whatever that may
> mean). But if these "reflections" are "as real as brahman", then doesn't it
> contradict the sruti statement that everything is brahman?
Yes the sufferings are reflections of Brahman but they are a part of
His thought. Because they are in His thought they are real like Him.
His thought is not different from Him.
> Even if I have an incomplete picture of things, how can you hold both
> brahman and my own phenomenal existence to have the same level of reality
> without violating sruti? Please throw some light.
Your existing as a particular Kalyan is incomplete picture. It is a
part of the thought of Brahman and You are Brahman having the thought.
This is the complete picture.
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>wrote:
>> Namaste Sri Kalyan
>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Kalyan K <kalyankc.81 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Venkateshji, suppose I am a dvaitin who is debating with you on vedanta.
>> > You tell me your position that everything is brahman. I ask you the
>> > following question - If everything is brahman, then why I am perceiving
>> > multiplicity in the world? I will say that the advaita philosophy that
>> > propound directly contradicts my experience. I will also say that I
>> > be brahman because brahman is free from all blemishes and sufferings
>> > I regularly suffer from misfortunes.
>> I am saying Maya and Avidya theory is not necessary. If you are seeing
>> multiplicity of the world. You are not wrong. Your Jnana is
>> incomplete. You don't have Ajnana called as Ignorance. You are not
>> seeing the entire picture but a part of it. The entire picture is
>> Brahman is the base and World is the reflection. But you are seeing
>> the World reflection only. When you do Brahman Upasana you will see
>> the entire picture. The Sruti is saying to you Tattvamasi You are
>> That. You are Brahman but you are not realizing it. You are saying you
>> are suffering from misfortunes. Here also you have incomplete picture.
>> That is why you are suffering. You are Brahman. You cannot suffer. The
>> suffering is happening to your reflection. You are standing in front
>> of a mirror and someone scratches the mirror. You are thinking there
>> is a scratch on the face. But the scratch is only for the reflection.
>> The face is not scratched.
>> > Without resorting to the concepts of maya/mithya/avidya, how will you
>> > answer me?
>> > Regards
>> > Kalyan
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