[Advaita-l] mleccha-s not eligible to take Hinduism??

[Rajaram Venkataramani]

On Sunday, July 15, 2012, ravi chandrasekhara wrote:

>
> a.There are those outside of chaturvarna ; created originally as such or
> descendant from the original 4. There is mention of Tribals, creation of
> mlechchas by Bhagawan Vishnu in Bhavishya Puraana, and also many jaathis
> claim creation from Lord Shiva, etc that are Shudras or outside of
> chaturvarna (source People of India anthropological Series).

RV: You have to first verify if the bhavishya Purana you referred to is a
critical edition or an interpolation British India. And what it says. As
one keen on protecting the tradition, you should first see if traditional
scholars admit that there was a separate creation of mlechchas, tribals
etc. We owe it to our forefathers to show some critical thinking.  The Lord
only talks about four Varnas. If people go out of it due to non- adherence
(e.g. late marriage, late upanayanam, marriage etc.), then they may not
belong to any one of the Varnas but may still have some of he rights to
rites (e.g. Rathakaras). I have at length dealt with this in my reply to
Sri Jaladhar. Please read it carefully.

> b.Yes, there is mention of anuloma progeny where a if father (higher
> varna)  and mother are 1 varna apart; that the progeny are same varna as
> father. I have heard of 7 generation rule if a Brahmin male marries a
> Shudra female and they have a girl and she marries a Brahmin male and like
> wise for 6 more times; that a son born 7 generations later will be a
> Brahmin.

RV: Are you saying that matrimony is the only way to change Varna? If varna
can be changed by some means, then you have to concede that it is not 100%
tied to jati or the womb from which one is born. I have again delt with
jatis changing varna in my reply to Sri Jaladhar. Please read carefully.

> g.R Venkataramani has mentioned varna by birth (I guess not heredity per
> say) can be determined by intrinsic guna. But who can judge this ?Like I
> mentioned those that are called Mlechchas may or may not have been
> descendants of Dvijas; so there is no dharmic means to make them as such.
> h.Based on above, the white European male has no adhikara for upanayana,
> etc.
>
RV:  The Lord talks about varna being the result of guna and karma. Of
course, guna is acquired at birth and is due to karma in previous lives. We
practically see that entire jatis share gunas. So, jati is an indicator of
guna. But where jati is not known or cannot indicate varna, astrology can.
Garga's coronation of Sivaji is an example. There is no evidence that the
lord created people who did not belong to one of the four Varnas. This is
not a traditional position unless you can show evidence from the works of
acharyas.