[Advaita-l] mleccha-s not eligible to take Hinduism??

[praveen kumar]

Sri Venkataramani,

Forget about Bhavishya purana,mahabharata time there were
mlechchas.Yavanas,Hunas,Kiratas
They all came for mahabharata war
They were all mlechchas.There was also a mlechcha basha.

There are various theories none of them are substantitated whether the
kshatriyas are the degenerated yavanas.

The below is for all those who proudly support giving varna tag,upanayana
etc
I do not have to repeat again about what I call madness about giving varna
by conversion.I know some of the members
in this mailing list are advocating in USA under certain organisations.The
argument has been''people have been converting hindus out and what is wrong
in converting non hindus to hinduism''?.Please remember that hinduism is
not the religion of numbers.
The varna ashrama is god ordained.Even some of our pitrus are assigned
roles in maintaining the varnaashrama(ref sayana bhashya)
Please do not resort to extremes of shashtra breaking as the repercussions
can be far reaching.
Nobody is above the rules of yamadharma.

Finally,the moderators should not promote such anti dharma shastra
stands/acts openly and maintain some sanity.
The list is for advaita learning and please focus only on that.

On 16 July 2012 21:50, Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sunday, July 15, 2012, ravi chandrasekhara wrote:
>
>>
>> a.There are those outside of chaturvarna ; created originally as such or
>> descendant from the original 4. There is mention of Tribals, creation of
>> mlechchas by Bhagawan Vishnu in Bhavishya Puraana, and also many jaathis
>> claim creation from Lord Shiva, etc that are Shudras or outside of
>> chaturvarna (source People of India anthropological Series).
>
> RV: You have to first verify if the bhavishya Purana you referred to is a
> critical edition or an interpolation British India. And what it says. As
> one keen on protecting the tradition, you should first see if traditional
> scholars admit that there was a separate creation of mlechchas, tribals
> etc. We owe it to our forefathers to show some critical thinking.  The Lord
> only talks about four Varnas. If people go out of it due to non- adherence
> (e.g. late marriage, late upanayanam, marriage etc.), then they may not
> belong to any one of the Varnas but may still have some of he rights to
> rites (e.g. Rathakaras). I have at length dealt with this in my reply to
> Sri Jaladhar. Please read it carefully.
>
>> b.Yes, there is mention of anuloma progeny where a if father (higher
>> varna)  and mother are 1 varna apart; that the progeny are same varna as
>> father. I have heard of 7 generation rule if a Brahmin male marries a
>> Shudra female and they have a girl and she marries a Brahmin male and like
>> wise for 6 more times; that a son born 7 generations later will be a
>> Brahmin.
>
> RV: Are you saying that matrimony is the only way to change Varna? If
> varna can be changed by some means, then you have to concede that it is not
> 100% tied to jati or the womb from which one is born. I have again delt
> with jatis changing varna in my reply to Sri Jaladhar. Please read
> carefully.
>
>> g.R Venkataramani has mentioned varna by birth (I guess not heredity per
>> say) can be determined by intrinsic guna. But who can judge this ?Like I
>> mentioned those that are called Mlechchas may or may not have been
>> descendants of Dvijas; so there is no dharmic means to make them as such.
>> h.Based on above, the white European male has no adhikara for upanayana,
>> etc.
>>
> RV:  The Lord talks about varna being the result of guna and karma. Of
> course, guna is acquired at birth and is due to karma in previous lives. We
> practically see that entire jatis share gunas. So, jati is an indicator of
> guna. But where jati is not known or cannot indicate varna, astrology can.
> Garga's coronation of Sivaji is an example. There is no evidence that the
> lord created people who did not belong to one of the four Varnas. This is
> not a traditional position unless you can show evidence from the works of
> acharyas.
>



-- 
Praveen