[Advaita-l] (no subject)

V Subrahmanian v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Sat May 26 12:22:52 CDT 2012

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 5:10 PM, abhishek sm <abhishek046 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Pranams,
> " The cycle is infinite. What has started may end but what hasn't
> started need not. This too has a logic behind it- Your question is
> "Due to which karma was "I" born the 1st time?", "What was the reason
> for "my" 1st birth?".

> Observe the one aspect in both questions- the use of "I" and "MY".
> When you ask," What was the reason for my 1st birth?", you acknowledge
> the fact that you existed before you were born as well. This is
> observed when you say "MY birth". So it is confirmed that you existed
> before your birth in an unborn form. This unborn form maybe anything.
> It maybe something about which we have no idea at all. Nevertheless it
> is evident that you existed.

There are a few points to be considered:

To 'naturally' or 'intuitively' know or have a conviction that 'I have
existed always and will do so for ever' is a very important milestone in
one's spiritual life.  Sri Ramana Maharashi's famous 'death' experience has
this crucial component: 'Can /will 'I' ever die?' was the question that
arose in him with a powerful resonance and its reply stayed for ever as
Self-realization.  So, if one has somehow arrived at the firm conviction
that one exists for ever, then that is very appreciable.

> Existence is due to karma as we already know.

However, this is not a correct conclusion.  Existence, Sat, is not a result
of any action.  The Bhagavad Gita 2.16 'na asato vidyate bhAvaH, na abhAvo
vidyate sataH' teaches this.  The Brahmasutra (asambhavastu sato
anupapatteH 2.3.9) too teaches that Sat has no birth/coming into being.
Sat exists for ever.  So one need not look for a reason for Existence.  It
is the undeniable, indestructible Real, Satyam.  To claim that to be our
true self is what self-realization is about.

If so, it means that even in an unborn form you are still
> susceptible to the laws of karma. Therefore, you manifest even in
> unborn forms. This cycle is hence regressive and infinite. "

When we arrive at an unborn existence, we are actually talking about pure
Existence.  This is not susceptible to the laws of karma.  The Bh.Gita
14.19 teaches this too: He who knows that only prakRti is involved in karma
and not the Self is the true seer. Thus the unborn existence is pure
Existence, Self.  It is only because of adhyAsa does one comes to think
oneself to be a doer/experiencer/samsArin. The purpose of Vedanta is to
enable one to properly discriminate between the prakRti  (kShetram) and the
PuruSha (the kShetrajna).  Finally, as taught in the last verse of the BG
13th Chapter, this two-fold conviction is required for liberation: 1. To
know that one is not the not-self but the Self alone and 2. The not-self
does not exist in all the three periods of time.

An enquiry on the topic you have opened will inevitably lead one to
ajAtivAda where the concept of 'creation' is completely given up; it has no
place at all.

I am including Sri R.Krishnamurty's reply too for a response:

//On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 8:41 PM, sriram <srirudra at vsnl.com> wrote:

> Dear
> As Hindus we believe in manybirths.Perhaps the first birth of yours may
> have been an upgraded birth from some other species which might have done
> some yogya karma to obtain a manushya janma.So it is anirvachaniya.Another
> point is we can not know what we were in the earlier birth.Srimad Bhagavad
> gita will be able to solve your queries.R.Krishnamoorthy.


In Vedanta any life-form is the result of the karma performed in an earlier
human life.  The form could be either super-human or sub-human, depending
on the karma. //


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