[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
Wed Oct 31 17:50:54 CDT 2012
In SBh 1.5.12, Kadalangudi Sastrigal translates that atma jnanam does not look well when devoid of devotion to the supreme lord.
The Lord himself saysin the Bhagavatam (I don't have the ready reference) that he gives the Atmajnanam to his ardent devotee, That means the Lord wants the devotee to have the Atmajnanam and this tmeans that liberation is the obvious result.
From: Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
Dear Sri Vidyasankar,
In SBh 1.5.12, Kadalangudi Sastrigal translates that atma jnanam does not
look well when devoid of devotion to the supreme lord. In SBh 3.29.13, it
is clearly said that a pure devotee does not want any kind of liberation
including ekatvam. A similar view is expressed in SBh 4.9.29. In SBh
2.3.10, three kinds of devotes are talked about. One who is free from all
desires, one who has all desires and one who has desire for liberation. So,
it is not that there are only devotees with desires in the material world
and devotees who want to get out of it.There are akama bhaktas who perform
devotion only because of attraction to the lord. We may not have that kind
of devotion but cannot say that it does not exist.
I don't think Bhakti needs bheda bhava as you say. Madhusudana says that
the highest devotee is one who knows I am He. Even in gaudiya school,
Baladeva talks about Gopalaham as a form of devotion. Sridhara, in his
introduction to BhavArthadIpikA talks about devotion between Siva and
Vishnu, who are one. Please read Prof. lance Nelson's thesis on Bhakti
Rasayana. He describes how Madhusudana not only considers Bhakti to be
paramapurushartha but also why it is eternal. Of course, he concludes that
Madhusudana was more a devotee than an advaitin and could not reconcile
Bhakti and Advaita. I think a deeper research in to Bhakti and Advaita is
In Yoga, Enlightenment and Perfection Sringeri Periyava answers his
disciple's question whether after realising the falsehood of all forms he
looked upon saradambal's form also like that. But he answered that he was
moved with tears - emotion there? :) I don't think Bhakti is an emotion as
you say. I tend to go with SBh which says Bhakti is a Manovrtti or
Madhusudana who says it is non-different from Bhagavan.
On Wednesday, October 31, 2012, Vidyasankar Sundaresan wrote:
> > SBh says that a pure devotee does not want moksha. If you are a devotee
> and blissful, why would you want a state where the loving relationship
> between the lord and a devotee as in say Rama and Hanuman does not exist
> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> Dear Rajaram,
> If you are serious about sAdhana at a personal level, I think it is high
> time you took
> a hard look at where your heart lies. Decide what your path is
> accordingly. "A pure
> devotee does not want moksha" - where are you getting this from in the
> purANa? It seems to me that your comment is based on an English
> translation (by
> American followers) of Sri Prabhupada's interpretation of that purANa.
> Sri Subrahmanian has been more than patient in addressing your questions
> On the other hand, it is increasingly clear that what you want is not a
> logical answer
> but an emotional one. Why would you want one state or the other?
> Unfortunately for
> emotion, the state of moksha is not something that you can pick and choose
> as per
> your wants. It just is.
> brahmAtmajnAna is neutral to the emotions of human beings, even when these
> emotions are directed towards profound tattva-s. It does not change to
> satisfy the
> longings of this or the other person. Conversely, so long as there is a
> longing for
> one thing or the other, there is no real interest in brahmAtmajnAna.
> If it is extremely important to a person who wants to be a bhakta that he
> or she
> should always maintain bheda-bhAva so as to have a relationship with
> then that person is completely ill-suited to a philosophy that is based on
> that puts abheda at its center and points to abheda as its goal.
> bhedAbheda is not
> a legitimate way out of this dilemma, no matter how acintya it is said to
> be. At
> some point in time, logic places an inexorable demand on the human mind. It
> forces anyone inclined to bhedAbheda to choose whether it is bheda or
> that is really being upheld. The choice is yours.
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