[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
svedagarbha at gmail.com
Thu Aug 8 17:10:17 CDT 2013
On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:34 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well, the knowledge-of-existence is different from Existence itself.
>> In your analysis, the knowledge of existence of world is dependent on
>> pramAta, but the existence (of pramEya) itself is not dependent.
> The Chandogya shruti, for instance, says:
> ‘सन्मूलाः सोम्येमाः सर्वाः प्रजाः सदायतनाः सत्प्रतिष्ठाः’ – ‘Sanmoolãhã
> somyemãhã sarvãhã prajãhã sadãyatanãhã satpratishthãhã’ – ‘Whatever
> creation can be seen, has all been created from that sat – Brahman. Also, Sat
> is the cause of the sustenance and dissolution of creation’ (Chãndogya
> Upanishad: 6/8/4).
> Thus, O Shvetketu, that Brahman and Parabrahman are the cause of all. Sat
> is the ãtmã of all; Sat pervades all, control all and support all.
> The Lord says in the Bh.GitA:
> मत्तः परतरं नान्यत्किञ्चिदस्ति धनञ्जय |
> मयि सर्वमिदं प्रोतं सूत्रे मणिगणा इव ||७- ७||
> "Sri Krishna said: O Arjuna, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything
> rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread."
> Since the pramAtA is both sat and chit, the prameya is dependent for both
> its existence and knowability on the pramAtA consciousness.
Well, those above cited pramANa-s are talking about Consciousness of
Brahman/SriKrishna, but not yours. Our dispute started with you
questioning the reality of objects based on **your** consciousness as
pramatar. Now someone else's consciousness is shown as evidence. If
it is further argued that they are the same, then I say that such
identity cannot be made unless you deny the reality of external
objects. You cannot deny it unless you equate your consciousness with
Consciousness of SriKrishna. That sounds like a circular to me.
More over, your very quoting of those scriptural evidence itself is an
**evidence** that your consciousness did not know that Truth to begin
with but has to depend on that scriptures, which is quite "external"
to your consciousness. Your evidence proves the contrary to your
position at the end. As a pramatar you have a very dependency on
external scriptures in order to know that they are not real but only
you are the real. That is invalid, because at the root of your
conclusion there exist your dependency on the scriptures.
>> Taking one step further, the very knowledge of type "I am Conscious
>> pramatar" itself cannot be generated unless I show up in this body
>> complex. We do not see Conscious pramatar apprehending any knowledge
>> in its aSharIri form. I am not sure about you, but I did not know
>> about myself (that I exist) before I got birth and struck in this body
>> complex! In this sense pramatar is as much depend on dEha which is
>> hosting it.
> It is because the nature of the Pure Consciousness of the Upanishad is that
> it will not be experienced unless through some or the other upAdhi. The
> body/mind is one such upAdhi through which the Consciousness is
That is the talk of avidya.
Shankara clearly says "sasharIrasya mithyAjnAna nimittatvAt", and
also in another place "nirasyopAdhi sambandham jneyatvena upadisyate"
(I think BSB 1.1.12 )
>> That vichArita dRShti is not so "vichArita" after all after one
>> applies vigorous vichAra!
> If you study under a qualified Acharya you will get a glimpse of what
> Vedanta vichAra is.
But that "qualified Acharya" must be unreal because his existence is
*depend* on your consciousness?
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