[Advaita-l] Desire, Jnana and Moksha
lalitaalaalitah at lalitaalaalitah.com
Sat Dec 7 12:40:03 CST 2013
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>wrote:
> You are saying Jnana alone is sufficient for escaping birth and death.
Yes. This is true. Don't you accept that GYAna destrys aGYAna which is
cause of birth-death-cycle? If GYAna destroys cause of saMsAra, what else
is needed to destroy saMsAra.
I already made clear that vAsanA-s are not cause of saMsAra on their own.
> how can any person know he has got Jnana if he has not conquered himself.
What does 'conquered himself' mean
If 'Killed himslef '? This is not useful for GYAna and moxa.
If 'Conquered mind' ? Then, up to what level.
If to utmost level, then what is it ?
If lack of every vR^iti, then it may be helpful for shodhana of
tvaM-padArtha. But, it is not essential for GYAna as the means of GYAna,
i.e. shravaNa, manana, etc. are chitta-vR^itti-s. What else, even
brahmaGYAna is a mental modification. So, in this sense 'lack of every
vR^itti'(nirvikalpa-samAdhi) is opposed to GYAna and it's means.
So, we have to say that 'lack of those vR^itti-s which are opposed to
shravaNa, etc.' is the 'type of mind-control and vAsanA-control needed'.
Again, this level may not be stable and the jiGYAsu may go to lower levels
depending to strength of practice-of-sadvAsanA and mind-control and
durvAsanA-s. But, what he needs most is to control opposite forces enough
to practice shravaNa, etc. enough to generate and stabilize GYAna. What is
this 'enough amount' is to be determined by the sAdhaka himself. Only he
can know that how much 'minimum control' enables him to practice sAdhana-s.
This is the logical stand which can be supported.
The views which are presented here by others and taken literally without
thinking much are illogical and can't be supported. The view presented by
someone citing tota-purI and rAmakR^iShNa falls in the same category. If
one has to accept those views, please don't expect even bhagavatpAda,
shuka, etc. to be GYAnI, because we know about their lapses. What to say
about rAmakR^iShaNaa-paramahaMsa, etc. We are aware of even more occasions
when they transgressed shAstra-s and showed presence of vAsanA-s.
This has been talked many times. If you search archives, you will find more
thoughts on it.
Although, I've replied the question taking that it is talking of jiGYAsau
and not GYAnI.
But, if you see you can find that the thread started with questioning
presence of desire in GYAnI and not jiGYAsu. So, the question now posed is
not a valid for this thread.
Someone said 'No person is free who is not a master of himself' If his
> Vasanas and Manas are not in his control how he can say he is Jnani?
See, a person is GYAnI means that he has GYAna. What is it's relation with
control of vAsanA and mind ?
I'm a knower of pot because
I posses knowledge of pot. Nothing else is needed.
> can he act like a brute and say he is a Jnani?
He can do like that and say that he is GYAnI if he knows that 'he is one
and everything else is adhyasta, and he is akartA'.
The question, who will decide that he feels like that or not is easy to
answer. Leave it on him who is claiming that he is untouched by karma, only
he can know that what he feels(as you know whether you know pot or not).
More information about the Advaita-l mailing list