[Advaita-l] Real vs. Unreal
H S Chandramouli
hschandramouli at gmail.com
Sun Dec 15 23:42:54 CST 2013
H S CHANDRAMOULI
Dear Sri RVji,
Your first sentence must be corrected as follows.
< As per advaita, the creation exists as real only for the ignorant > . The
bhashyam for BG 2.16 means the same. This is just the issue which needs
resolution in this thread. I refer you to mandukya ( with karika ) wher an
entire chapter ( chapter 2 ) " vaitathya prakarana " is devoted to this
question. This is an elaboration of the word " prapanchopashamam " ( verse
7 in the upanishad ) which means " without creation ". This verse is a
description of Turiyam/Brahman/Atman/Consciousness. The word prior to this
is " Ekatmapratyayasarah". This means this Turiyam can be realized only as
theonly common feature available in all the three earlier states
(waking/dream/deep sleep ) . The 2nd chapter explains how creation takes
place in the Turiyam which is itself bereft of creation. This process of
creation is explained from verse 13 onwards after a discussion of how dream
and waking states are essentially same in terms of their reality. Since
this chapter can be considered as a detailed explanation of verse 2.16 of
BG may i request you to just glance through this at least ( unless you have
already gone through it ) and reassure for yourself whether your current
understanding still holds good.
Regarding your assertion < If you say that the world exists, it can never
become nonexistent, even after mukti ( jivan or videha ) > . You are
absolutely right. That in fact is the definition for Real ( Sat ) in
advaita. That is why Brahman/Atma Turiyam/Consciousness is claimed to be
the ONLY real thing ( pardon me for using the word loosely ) . Having said
this as i mentioned above Chapter 2 of Mandukya Karika explains how
creation is to be treated without violating this statement.
I hope I have answered your points. ( though i have referred to mandukya
without elaborating it here itself, but that would be making this mail too
long for a patient reding and also because it is readily available for
access ). Do let us know your response.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 12:23 PM, H S Chandramouli <
> hschandramouli at gmail.com
> > wrote:
> > I think it would be useful to breakdown the issue to a few separate
> > questions and discuss them individually. Based on the response i got from
> > sri RV to one of my earlier mails, i think the first question to be
> > addressed is the status of existence of creation. I want to make the
> > following statement.
> > < As per the shrutis, creation exists >.
> > I do not want at this stage to mix up issues like the mithyatva/satyatva,
> > jnana/ajnana, whether a jnani sees it or not etc. The status of creation
> > can be discussed subsequently based on Sri RVs response. I would like to
> > ask Sri RV if he agrees with this straightforward statement or not. There
> > are any number of shruti vakyas in support of this statement which i can
> > quote if needed. However if Sri RV disagrees with this statement, which i
> > suspect would be the case based on his previous response, I request him
> > quote any shruti vakya in support. We can then see if any different
> > explanation is to be ascribed to the same. May i request Sri RV to
> > If he agrees with this statement, then i would like to takeup the next
> > posssible point of disagreement.
> RV: As per advaita, the creation exists only for the ignorant. In reality,
> there is no creation. nasato vidyate bhavo na bhavo vidyate sata (BhG
> 2.16). If you say that the world exists, it can never become non-existent
> even after mukti (jivan or videha).
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