[Advaita-l] Mayavada Darpanam

[Nithin Sridhar]

Regarding your statement of the basis of Vedas being Apaurusheya. The very
analysis of Vedas from Historical context is faulty and goes contrary to
the tradition. Vedas are not considered a historical development in the
tradition. Hence, historical analysis has only limited value. You may read
this, something I had written on the topic-
http://nithinsridhar.wordpress.com/2013/11/10/the-limitations-of-historical-analysis-in-understanding-hinduism/

The Hinduism or its tenets are not based on Historical validity. Further,
the claim that Rishi's wrote some hymns is absurd. Rishis "Saw" and "Heard"
those hymns in deep samadhi.  So, it was not that they wrote it. This very
understanding is faulty.

Islam and Christianity is based on Historical facts, not Hinduism as such.
Much criticism of historicity of Jesus has been already done in the west so
also the criticism of Islam. Kindly visit-
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page


On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:15 PM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:

> It is very arrogant on your part if you say that Islam and Christianity
> don't pose intellectual threat. Apart from sword and money, they also use
> information warfare. In the link I shared Islamic Scholars argue why Vedas
> are not apaurusheya. If you have counter in defence of apaurusheyatva,
> please discuss. This fundamental tenet on which your vedanta stands
> (according to tradition) is flawed as per modern scholarship sponsored by
> the church. There are countless scholarly attacks on varnashrama dharma as
> well by missionaries and muslim scholars.  There are serious intellectual
> works by Dr. Witzel to PV Kane that demolish many vedic myths upheld Hindu
> traditions. Instead of defending dharma against such attacks, you are
> wasting time on in-fighting between vaidhika traditions in the name of
> polemics.
>
> If Sringeri Acharya supports Islam, how is that dharma just because he
> does it? From when did rape, murder, demolition of places of worship,
> discriminatory taxation (jizya) etc. came to be called dharma? :) I'm aware
> of the implication of criticising a jnAni - suffer bad karma done by him
> before his moksha. If I still do, it is because I strongly believe truth is
> the greatest of all dharmas as Manu asserts. I'm confident that I'll get
> the grace of Ishwara and the very acharya I criticise for speaking the
> truth that is in the larger interest of the world than phony eulogy that
> befits only the faint hearted.
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nithin Sridhar <sridhar.nithin at gmail.com>
> Sender: "Advaita-l" <advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>Date:
> Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:23:06
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Reply-To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>  <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Mayavada Darpanam
>
> I do not feel there is anything wrong with the path of Bhagavata, Kapalika
> or Aghora.  I accepted them as valid as any other path. Of course they can
> be misused too just like any other paths.
>
> Comparing Islam with other branches of Hinduism is a fallacy. The Duty of
> the Acharya's be it of Sringeri or Ramakrishna was not to write treatise
> criticizing Islam or Christianity but was to uphold the tenets of Sanatana
> Dharma. And that has worked lot better in keeping Hinduism alive and
> flourishing more than it would have done by writing some critique. Further,
> Islam or Christianity had never posed a Intellectual Threat. The threat was
> always through Sword or Money. And this cannot be dealt by writing a
> Sanskrit treatise against Islam etc. I am very well aware of atrocities of
> Islam and Christianity. Tell me why did it happen? One of the many reasons
> was that Indians had forsaken Dharma and hence became weak. I agree that
> there is a void of Literature about Critique of Islam and Christianity from
> Hindus. And it has been partially filled in recent times by Scholars like
> Ram Swarup, Sita Ram Goel, Arun Shorie etc. And more of it must come, but
> this is not the job of a Sringeri Acharya who is concerned with a more
> deeper problem of rise of Adharma in society. They have shown by example
> how life must be lead. They have explained the tenets of Dharma for
> everyone to follow. Its time for we, the people to now revive the Dharma.
>
> Once, people return to Dharm even partially, the Hindu society would become
> strong, then no external threats would be able to oppose it.  One more
> point, Islam converted the whole of the lands into Islam wherever it
> spread, so also Christianity. Yet, in India they both failed. They have
> injured us for we were weak, but they could not kill us. India still has
> Dharma that is only sleeping now.
>
> As Sujal ji has pointed out, this discussion is best to be carried out in a
> separate thread. And we should discuss only on the present blog.
>
> Regards,
> Nithin
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
> rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Nithin,
> >
> > Sri Jaldhar Vyas may resort to ban as he has expressed intolerance to
> > opposing view point. I would like to post this before that so that
> > intelligent people may understand it.
> >
> > Yes, we should critically examine our own texts and other Vedic
> traditions.
> > The is required to arrive at the truth and have conviction in our own
> path.
> > In this sense, I think Sujal's post of the link is quite relevant as it
> is
> > in defence of advaita against attack by Madhwas. However, an intelligent
> > person will choose the worst of the evil and attack it first. Would you
> > treat bhagavathas and kapalikas in the same way? You would agree with
> most
> > of what the former says but disagree on certain conclusions. With the
> > latter, you may condemn and even impose ban if you had the power. (If you
> > are Sri Jaldhar Vyas you may ban both :) as they are anyway wrong from
> > advaita point of view).
> >
> > Advaitins - be it Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda, Sringeri Acharyas
> or
> > any one - did not write any thing to critique Islam or Christianity
> > but spared no effort against other Hindu traditions. When discussing a
> > philosophy, we will not only see the content but also the qualities of
> the
> > speaker.  Those who defend a philosophy will be forced to defend the
> > philosopher too - cant shy away from that. Sringeri Acharya admits that
> > there were excesses by muslims but defends that.  He says that they did
> it
> > on the basis if their faith. History tells us what these excesses are -
> > rape, murder, destruction of temples, cow slaughter, jizya, forced
> > conversions etc. Is rape of "kafir women" defensible on the basis of
> faith?
> > If we treat someone, even a parama bhakta or jnani, as infallible, we
> will
> > obstruct truth and justice. We have to pay for such injustice with
> blood. A
> > sincere brahmin officer Sri Sankarraman was brutally slaughtered in
> > a temple 9 years ago. I am glad Sankaracharya and Kanchi Mutt
> > asssociates were acquitted. However, the people who killed Sankarraman
> > - missionaries ? - have not been caught and no one is fighting for that.
> > His is not an isolated slaughter but there are many activists of Hindu
> > dharma who get killed by religious fanatics even today. It is a fair ask
> > that those who indulge in polemics should oppose the grossest forms of
> them
> > that lead to fundamentalism and terrorism. Is it not?
> >
> > Proponents of Islam and Christianity, among other things,
> > attack apaurusheyatva of Vedas, one of the key tenets of vaidhika dharma
> >
> >
> http://www.islamhinduism.com/hinduism/analysis/59-origin-of-vedas-their-inspiration-and-authority
> > Recently, I ran a blog http://apaureshyatva.blogspot.co.uk/ on the
> > topic where Sri Jaldhar Vyas also
> > participated. Needless to say that the arguments in favour of
> > apaurusheyatva were decimated using
> > Philology, Linguistics etc. Sri Jaldhar Vyas ducked out of the
> discussion.
> > I followed it up with Sri Mani
> > Dravid Sastrigal and made some progress. It is still not
> > rigorously defensible because we don't
> > have the required knowledge as a tradition. Hence, I ask scholars to
> focus
> > on defending dharmic
> > traditions instead of in-fighting amongst vaidhikas.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > RV
> > On Tuesday, December 17, 2013, Nithin Sridhar wrote:
> >
> > > Is is not true that a bigger crisis in the society as a whole is that
> > > people are not  even adhering to Samanya Dharma of Satya etc? Sringeri
> > > Guruji in most of his speech advice people to practicing Dharma. The  Q
> > is
> > > how many are listening?
> > >
> > > Secondly, Is Shankaracharya a Jagadguru or just a Guru of Vaidikas?
> Think
> > > about it.
> > >
> > > Criticism of Islam on Ideological level is one thing, finding fault
> with
> > > our Guru's is completely different. Have we become competent enough to
> > > Judge or Criticize such people as Sringeri Guruji?
> > > _______
> > >
> > > I am not saying anybody is above criticism. But, criticism should be
> > > genuine and elaborate and not mere personal attacks or judgements.
> > >
> > > -Nithin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Venkatesh Murthy <
> vmurthy36 at gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Namaste
> > > >
> > > > I agree with RV. The Sringeri and other Math are friendly with
> Muslims.
> > > But
> > > > Muslims are hell bent on increasing the population of Muslims by
> having
> > > > four wives and many children with no birth control. The Sringeri
> > Swamiji
> > > is
> > > > not able to solve the shortage of Brides for Vaidika Brahmin
> > > Bridegrooms.At
> > > > the same time he is happy to use gifts from Muslims and Muslim Kings.
> > Why
> > > > he is not asking in his speeches to give daughters in marriage to
> > > Vaidikas.
> > > > Is it not his duty to protect Vaidika Dharma and make it to continue
> > for
> > > > ever? If Vaidikas dont get wives they can not have boys to learn
> Vedas.
> > > >
> > > > I know one Madhva Swamiji has asked fathers to give daughters to
> > Vaidikas
> > > > to protect Vaidika Dharma.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:29 AM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Sri Jaldhar,
> > > > >
> > > > > I shared the view with the intent of protection of dharmic
> traditions
> > > in
> > > > > mind. I thought any one is welcome to share their views on this
> forum
> > > > just
> > > > > as you would allow guests in your house to speak for dharma as they
> > > deem
> > > > > fit. If we don't share our thoughts (and remain open to
> correction),
> > > how
> > > > > can we learn?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you equate vaishnavism (vishishtadvaita, dwaita etc.), which are
> > > self
> > > > -
> > > > > consistent philosophical systems to abrahmic cults, the onus is on
> > you
> > > to
> > > > > prove that it is the case.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kristhu Madha Kandanam (condemnation of christianity) by
> saivAcharya
> > is
> > > > > the only quality critique I have seen by a traditional mutt. It
> > stopped
> > > > > conversions in Kerala. If you know the works of traditional mutts
> > that
> > > > > critique Christianity and Islam in a scholarly manner, please point
> > > them
> > > > > out. Buddhists have done it and hence captured the imagination of
> > > > > intellectuals all over the world. On the other hand, even the
> > Sringeri
> > > > > acharyas have defended Islam and Christianity leave alone ISKCON
> > which
> > > is
> > > > > evangelical. Such defences can't stand the scrutiny using facts and
> > > > logic.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards
> > > > > RV
> > > > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> > > > > Sender: "Advaita-l" <advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > >Date:
> > > > > Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:36:48
> > > > > To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<
> > > > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > > > > Reply-To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> > > > >  <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Mayavada Darpanam
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 16 Dec 2013, Rajaram Venkataramani wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > While Hindu traditions engage in pointless polemics, missionaries
> > > > convert
> > > > > > and muslims do a demographic siege. How many have the courage to
> > > oppose
> > > > > > Islam or Christianity? Even our mathathipathis support Islam and
> > > > > > Christianity unmindful of the damage they cause to traditional
> > > > > institutions.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. "The pointless polemics" as you call them are equally useful
> > against
> > > > > anky kind of monotheism which is basically just an unsophisticated
> > > > dvaita.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.  The future of Hinduism belongs to the educated not illiterates
> no
> > > > > matter how much they beat their chests and "oppose."
> > > > >
> > > > > 3.  You have no idea what the author is doing or not doing.  You
> have
> > > no
> > > > > idea what anyone on this list is doing or not doing.  So keep your
> > > > > editorializing to yourself it is not welcome here.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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