[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka

[Ramesam Vemuri]

Quote:  "........ you have to accept pratyaksha.  pratyaksha reveals that
world exists along with time....."

Right there lies the biggest presumption!
Such an "acceptance" is totally unwarranted because it is presumptuous. The
unverified presumption is that the "revelation"  from  pratyaksha  is
'reliable and True.'
The  burden of the entire argument in Vedanta (addvaita) addresses the
fallacy  in that presumption and establishes it to be unreliable.

regards,


On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 11:31 AM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:

> There is no presumption. Even if you don't accept other pramanas, you have
> to accept pratyaksha.  pratyaksha reveals that world exists along with
> time. You cannot prove, without other pramanas, that there was a creation
> or there will be destruction. So, the world is eternal.
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ramesam Vemuri <vemuri.ramesam at gmail.com>
> Sender: "Advaita-l" <advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>Date:
> Wed, 31 Jul 2013 07:33:30
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Reply-To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>  <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
>
> Respected Members,
>
> "If there is no sarvajna Ishwara after pralaya, who will create as before
> and award rewards of karma in previous kalpa?"
>
> In a statement like the above, the key words look to me to be "(a world) as
> BEFORE."
>
> Because we recognized something to be in the likeness of what was earlier,
> we assumed that it must have been the product resulting from the earlier
> thing based on the operation of cause-effect relationships we are familiar
> with. From then on, we are using impeccable logic, shastra-s, pramANa, the
> words of authoritative commentators and so on to explain / understand the
> various subsequent issues.
>
> But have we subjected our INITIAL presumption, which seems to have slipped
> from below our radar of hair-splitting analysis, to the same rigor of
> unbiased, fair and open examination that we are insisting for later on
> developments?
>
> What incontestable evidence can one  ever have that a world is created in
> the exact similitude or as an effect of whatever was there earlier? Is this
> not a huge unverified (unverifiable) conclusion?
>
> Brahman (the word does not stand for an entity but used only as a pointer
> to some inexpressible 'no-thing thing' having certain "intrinsic qualities"
> like Beingness-Knowingness-Infiniteness) is HISTORYLESS (no past - is ever
> afresh and anew). Perhaps, creation is anew from moment to moment, with
> each new thought coming and going!
>
> regards,
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:47 PM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
> rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Namaskaram.
> >
> > We can rest assured that the modern meat eating globe trotting swamis
> know
> > little about Advaitam compared to Sridhara. Do you think he did not know
> > paramarthika or vyavaharika when he wrote so about Vaikuntha? I pointed
> out
> > the basic flaw in Shree Subrahmanian's analysis of the usage of Vaikuntha
> > by Sridhara, which you have not responded to.
> >
> > I repeatedly asked a basic question that exposes a fundamental flaw in
> your
> > understanding of Advaitam, which has gone unanswered. Further discussion
> is
> > meaningful only if you can answer this.
> >
> >  "If there is no sarvajna Ishwara after pralaya, who will create as
> before
> > and award rewards of karma in previous kalpa?"
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, July 31, 2013, kuntimaddi sadananda wrote:
> >
> > > From: Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > > >
> > > >Please answer a basic question. "If there is no sarvajna Ishwara after
> > > >pralaya, who will create as before and award rewards of karma in
> > previous
> > > >kalpa?"
> > > --------
> > > Shree Rajaram - There is fundamental problem in the whole analysis. All
> > > that you mentioned, Iswara with sarvajna, laya, pralaya, karma, jiiva,
> > > jnaanam, ajnanaam -lokas, even puurva miimamsa, utta miimaamsa that
> > include
> > > Sreedhara swami  bhaashya, Bhattas, praabhaakaras, miimaasa positions,
> > and
> > > anything else you name it, all and any divisions and distinctions which
> > > differentiates in terms of sajaati, vijaati swagata bhedas - all  are
> > only
> > > transactionally real. Noone disputes that. From paaramaarthika point -
> > > existence-consciousness alone was there which has no distinctions of
> any
> > > kind - ekam eva advitiiyam. Hence nirguna brahman we talk about refers
> to
> > > that prajnanam brahma - that which is one without a second.
> Ontologically
> > > paramaarthika satyam differs from vyaavahaarika satyam which again
> > differs
> > > form praatibhaasika satyam. The adviata teaching is from paaramaarthika
> > > satyam. Confusion arises if try to mix these things - from what
> reference
> > > these
> > >  distinctions you mentioned are valid. You may not agree with this, but
> > > advaita categorically dismisses any distinctions of any kind from the
> > > absolute point.
> > > Just my 2c
> > > Hari Om!
> > > Sadananda
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