[Advaita-l] Reply to Sri Vidyamanya Tirtha's observations

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste Sri Sujal Mahodaya

Karma is of many types but Karma I am talking about is Nitya Karma
sanctioned in the Vedas. The BG  also is saying there are many Karmas but
Karma as Yajna is different. It is Vishnu. It cannot be useless for Jnana
like other Karma. This Yajna will be very useful to get Atma Jnana.
Meditation is useful. But Yajnas are also useful. Kindly reconsider your
position.



On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Sri Venkatesh ji,
>
> I was merely pointing stating that as on progresses in meditaton, he move
> from 'effort to effortless'. I was not talking of final state. Please catch
> the content and drop the container. That nAvika wa snot enjoying hukkA. It
> was symbolic like I said above - from effort the effortless.
>
> What I am saying is that Karma is for chitta Shuddhi, which can be done by
> bhakti and nityA karma and ofcourse regular nidhidhyAsana.
>
> If we talk about who is this 'I', then we will have to enter the realm of
> ajAta vAda in which there is no nityA karma, no meditator, no yoga, no
> prANAyama, etc. This is applicable to an advanced seeker who has already
> burned all desires except one - 'I want moksha'.
>
> Limited effort cannot produce limitless results. Why is sanyAsa Ashrama
> considered the last and top most ashram from spiritual POV. Why it has been
> told to drop nitya karma and to renounce agni (havans, etc), which
> generally comes under kAmya karma.
>
> Adi Shankara gives instructions from adhikAra bheda, so that each one of us
> can gradually progress in spirituality.
>
> sanyAsa is not a dishA, a way of life, it is mAnasika dashA, mental state.
> A mumukshu can live in house and have renounced mentally everything and may
> not even care about his body. But this renouncing of everything is not just
> renouncing. There is something that is more precious compared to that which
> is renounced. This is God. There is also mental purity that one can live
> with bare minimum necessities. There is utmost faith in God, either one
> surrenders his body to prArabhdha or to God. By saying that 'surrender to
> prArabhdha' I mean to dis-associate with it and entirely neglecting it. But
> how can one live without taking care of body. Dot we need to eat, bath,
> wear clothes?. Is this not karma? One may ask such questions.
>
> The answer is one does things that are *compulsory* and not for leisure. If
> body demands food, one eats, but not over-eats if one has liking for
> particular food. If eating one time is enough, skip the dinner. If one can
> live on sattvik food like on fruits or milk, then even quit eating one time
> food.
>
> But is this not karma and attachment with body.
>
> The answer is No. Why? because prArabhdha karma is not an hindrance to
> spiritual progress.
>
> But how can one know that it is not an hindrance?
>
> Simple. When you meditate, the issues which you had given importance will
> pop up in mind and disturb the meditation. e.g. if you have attachment with
> your daughter or son and if he is sick, you will see his face in
> meditation. If he does not come in meditation, means that you are living
> life spontaneously, as it happens, with no planning.
>
> If you take initiative, then it is your own decision and not prArabhdha.
> Lets take an example. If you want to write a commentary or translate Gita
> bhAshya of our acharya and publish it as a book. This may look very noble,
> but it is necessary for your spiritual progress? ask yourself. If it is not
> and if it is your own initiative, then you are attached. How will you know
> that you ar eattached? Suppose your plan fails and no one is ready to proof
> read and publish your work or your work is not appreciated, then you will
> feel a little low. This feeling of 'little low' is due to attachment.
>
> If God has himself ordered you to write bhAshya or translate it or if your
> Guru has ordered you, than all you have to do is to write it. Remember how
> Adi shankara wrote Br. Sutra. bhAshya and then surrendered it to VyAsadev
> and then wished to drop his mortal coil. He was ordered to write
> commentary. He himself did not initiate it. He was not interested in
> spreading it or having verbal debates. It was vyasadeva who ordered him to
> do what he did. We all know what he did :) . When God gives you some task,
> he also gives you sAmarthya' (ability). We see that Adi Shankara was given
> another 16 years. He did not chose to live, but surrendered to prArabhdha.
> It was at the command of lord (both Shiva and Vyasadeva) and his Guru that
> he did what he did. If his life would not have been extended, would he be
> able to do any work?
>
> Sri Ramakrishna says that just getting inspiration and mentally assuming
> that someone divine being is inspiring you to do some work and spread the
> teaching is not enough. god himself must give darshan. When Ishvara is
> behind you, he takes care of everything. There i no chance of failure of
> divine plan.
>
> Karma has to be done, but only that which is compulsory. When you actually
> are detached from body (though not yet in advaita sthiti), still you will
> not have any urge to do any work, but just live for God. There will be
> mental isolation, even in the midst of the noisy of market. Indriya-s do
> not hunt down anything. Sri Ramdas said, (in hindi), bhara bazara mein
> thaa, per khariddara koi naa thaa', which means that when objects of sense
> perception are available all around you, yet indriya-s do not hunt for
> them.
>
> When you meditate more and more, you will drop all karmas except the ones
> compulsory. In this case there is no question of doing nitya karma, as the
> purpose of doing them as already been fulfilled. You have achieve inner
> purity.
>
> Karma cannot give moksha. Atman cannot be 'achieved'. In this race, the
> winner is the one who is last. The one who withdraws from race and becomes
> observer is the winner.
>
> Karma-kand has it's own place. For proper functioning of society, each
> ashram and each type of karma is equally important, but it is not the final
> goal. without knowledge there is no mukti and mukti does not automatically
> come as chitta is purified as one is still attached with body
>
> To do any karma, one has to take aadhaara of body, and external objects,
> which are gross. Mind is subtler than them. It is the mind that is we are
> concerned and not karma or body. Body, which is already dead, is never
> purified. It is the mind that is purified. We are concerned with mind and
> not body or anything external. How can external gross things having no
> independent existence can give you moksha. They are all under the influence
> of mAyA. They are not capable of to transcend mAyA. Mind is also under the
> influence of mAyA, but a suddha sAttvika mana has guNa of 'tyAga'. Only by
> surrendering to that which transcends mAyA, is capable of taking one beyond
> mAyA. That which transcends mAyA is none other than Brahman.
>
> Brother, Karma, by nature is gross. It can in no way give give that which
> is subtle than itself. Can you teach sanskrit if you do not know sanskrit?
>
> Also note that whatever happens because of prArabhdha is very graceful and
> mind calms down after the event is over. It is our perception and
> interpretation that make us to act or react in a particular way, which
> causes the whole mess.
>
> I hoe members will get habituated for reading loooong responses ;)
>
> OM
>
> Sujal Upadhyay
>
> "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
> nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
>
> He who has faith has all
> He who lacks faith, lacks all
> It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh