[Advaita-l] Reply to Sri Vidyamanya Tirtha's observations
v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Thu Nov 28 11:37:20 CST 2013
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
> Dear Sri Bhaskar ji,
> praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji
> This 'considering' is not possible since his past janma is not known
> to himself or for others.
> > But I think lord knows that, hence he says arjuna you have somany
> janma-s & me too, but you dont remember those..
The Lord who knows a person's past janma has already given that jIva an
appropriate janma depending on what karma is fructifying. Still, no one in
the world, not even that jIva, will know that he has 'fallen'.
> So, it would be impossible for anyone to ascribe
> patitatvam to him.
> > Ashrama patitatva is quite obvious if one argues that jnAni-s (like
> vidhura etc.) in their previous janma MUST BE sanyAsi-s to become jnAni in
> current janma in other Ashrama.
Let me clarify that even in the above cases it is not possible for anyone
to decidedly say that vidura, for example, was a sannyasin in the life just
prior to his present life where he is known to be a jnani. There could be
any number of lives intervening the sannyasi janma and the present janma.
So, patitatva cannot be held against anyone across janmas, but can be done
so only within one janma.
> > Anyway, if we bring in that famous theory of prArabdha
> > karma phala, there will be a possibility that a true saMnyAsi can become
> a kartru-bhOktru gruhastha once again and patitatva can be treated as his
> > prArabdha janita karma phala :-))
> > I expected this emphatic 'YES' answer from you with regard to jnAni's
> and sanyAsi-jnAni-s patitatva in the name of prArabdha :-))
You need not bring in the jnAni's case here. Even without that we can
account for a person who has been in an exalted loka can return to this
maanava loka or go to a lower loka. All depends on which set of karma is
ready to bear fruit. That is the idea behind the mundaka / kaTha vAkyas I
cited. I shall cite a Gitaa bhAshya portion from 6.44 which has relevance
to this topic:
// यः पूर्वजन्मनि कृतः अभ्यासः सः पूर्वाभ्यासः, तेनैव बलवता ह्रियते
संसिद्धौ हि यस्मात् अवशोऽपि सः योगभ्रष्टः; न कृतं चेत् योगाभ्यासजात्
संस्कारात् बलवत्तरमधर्मादिलक्षणं कर्म, तदा योगाभ्यासजनितेन संस्कारेण
ह्रियते; अधर्मश्चेत् बलवत्तरः कृतः, तेन योगजोऽपि संस्कारः अभिभूयत एव,
तत्क्षये तु योगजः संस्कारः स्वयमेव कार्यमारभते, न दीर्घकालस्थस्यापि विनाशः
तस्य अस्ति इत्यर्थः।//
Translation by Sw.Gambhirananda:
//6.44 Hi, for; tena eva, by that very; purva-abhyasena, past practice-the
powerful habit formed in the past life; hiryate, he, the yogi who had
fallen from Yoga, is carried forward; avasah api, even inspite of
himself.If he had not committed any act which could be characterized
etc. and more powerful than the tendency created by the practice of Yoga,
then he is carried forward by the tendency created by the practice of Yoga.
If he had committed any unrighteous act which was more powerful, then, even
the tendency born of Yoga gets surely overpowered. But when that is
exhausted, the tendency born of Yoga begins to take effect by itself. The
idea is that it does not get destroyed, even though it may lie in abeyance
over a long period.//
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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